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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › 74th anniversary of D Day today
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 74th anniversary of D Day today (Read 866 times)
Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #50 - Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:14pm
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patrick2 wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:10pm:
Citing facts in support of what could have EASILY been a different outcome isn't speculating about "alternate reality".

Yes it is. As is the word "EASILY".

The United States is positioned, both geographically and economically and by law, and has been positioned as the most difficult to conquer country in the world. Massive population, and bracketed by two oceans. And everybody is armed.

Good luck.


Anything that calls a Nazi invasion of the US anything but a longshot is speculative at best.

patrick2 wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:10pm:
Saying that the outcome that happened was certain to be the outcome is absurd, and many historians will tell you that.

I'm not saying that the "outcome that happened was certain to be the outcome".

I'm saying that the Nazi invasion of the US that you have speculated about would be extraordinarily difficult to manage, even with every able bodied European man available for action. And they weren't all available.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Limey.
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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #51 - Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:24pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 7:44pm:
I spent years in college specifically studying military history at an institution that created many military leaders that wrote that history.

I'm by no means an expert, but in the context of this thread, your post heavily implies your mastery over others present on the subject.


Thank you Patrick.


You may rest assured that, come the Glorious Revolution, your re-education will be a mere ten years and you’ll get extra rice every last Friday.


Tell them Commissar Limeski said so.   Wink
  

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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #52 - Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:34pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 7:53pm:
Speculative.

The Russians always seem to find a way, at least since the Mongols.

Could the Germans have maintained supply lines through the first winter?

How far would they have gone?

The Soviety government would have retreated east, and maintained pressure and resistance, understanding that the Germans could only stretch so thin.


The insanity of a drugged up Hitler. Goering was an opiate addict.

The image of an efficient and long-lasting German empire is "almost certainly" false. The german military, as it always seems (seemed) to be was highly efficient, but their leadership was losing their minds, and their strategic decisions were highly questionable.

They would not have maintained any control over "the whole developed world".

Them. Those people. The world. Same as now. There still would have been massive devestation throughout the world, and America would still have been primed to supply the world with goods.

Probably about the same thing for Americans.

Sure.


I know you’re one of the cleverest posters here; clever ≠ informed.

Look at how very close the Nazi filth were to defeating the noble and just Heroes of the Soviet Socialist ahahaaha sorry, can’t keep that up, the deluded wicked Russian bastards.

It was really close.


The Axis involvements elsewhere, against British forces and also Yugoslavs and Greeks, were substantial.

Those forces would have tipped the balance.


Also, the Axis had a level of support from residual anti-Communists within the USSR which would in the natural order of things have burgeoned had Hitlers bastards had more success.






If you ever meet a Brit born pre-1920 buy him a beer.
  

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Lomelis
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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #53 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:23am
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Limey. wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
I know you’re one of the cleverest posters here; clever ≠ informed.

Look at how very close the Nazi filth were to defeating the noble and just Heroes of the Soviet Socialist ahahaaha sorry, can’t keep that up, the deluded wicked Russian bastards.

It was really close.


The Axis involvements elsewhere, against British forces and also Yugoslavs and Greeks, were substantial.

Those forces would have tipped the balance.


Also, the Axis had a level of support from residual anti-Communists within the USSR which would in the natural order of things have burgeoned had Hitlers bastards had more success.






If you ever meet a Brit born pre-1920 buy him a beer.


You and Patrick are forgetting that Germany would have had to successfully ship overseas millions millions as in many millions of troops, with all the aircraft, and vehicles, plus supplies to even establish a foothold in the US.

Retarded to think it was even possible.  They could not possibly have the logistics for such a thing and if they did try with whatever resources they had the war might have even ended sooner than it did. 
  

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Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #54 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:24am
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perhaps they could have just come north from Mexico   Cheesy
  
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Lomelis
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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #55 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:25am
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Limey. wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 1:22am:
Isn’t Patrick ex-Navy?


Anyway, intelligent use of military force can be a very good thing.


I’m not for a moment suggesting that your military is in fact used intelligently; no. This is a theoretical discussion.

But, look at WW2.

Had a well armed Britain made clear in the mid 1930s that aggression wouldn’t be tolerated...?

Had the US stated that it would certainly intervene with naval and industrial support...?


There absolutely is, morally, a place for force projection.


Lol @ Patrick being ex navy.  Maybe in a video game he played in his mom's bunker.
  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #56 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:30am
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Limey. wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
I know you’re one of the cleverest posters here; clever ≠ informed.

Look at how very close the Nazi filth were to defeating the noble and just Heroes of the Soviet Socialist ahahaaha sorry, can’t keep that up, the deluded wicked Russian bastards.

It was really close.


The Axis involvements elsewhere, against British forces and also Yugoslavs and Greeks, were substantial.

Those forces would have tipped the balance.


Also, the Axis had a level of support from residual anti-Communists within the USSR which would in the natural order of things have burgeoned had Hitlers bastards had more success.






If you ever meet a Brit born pre-1920 buy him a beer.


I generally concur in that Germany was very close to conquering Russia.  They made a few critical mistakes, the two biggest having nothing to do with supply lines or military strategy.  They failed to go to full wartime footing for years after the war started -- a victim of their own victory complex.  It lulled them into relative complacency, and they didn't institute full-scale drafts until it was pretty much too late.

Also, they imposed a harsh occupation over the Russian populace that was entirely unnecessary and in fact lit up an aggressive partisan resistance movement.  This was also sad, given the close historical relationship between the two countries, prior to the wars.

I'm not sure it's Britain who saved the day, though, given that the vast majority of fighting and dying happened in the east, rather than the west.
  

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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #57 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:31am
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patrick2 wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 1:48am:
Trying to tutor people like Lomelis about the lessons of history is like lecturing a rock.  Think of the lives and destruction that would have been saved if everyone pitched in to stop Hitler early in the game.


Or europe could have decided not to squeeze germany so hard after WWI that the German people might not have supported such a homicidal maniac.

No rise of Hitler, no German invasions.
  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #58 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:38am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Jun 8th, 2018 at 8:14pm:
Yes it is. As is the word "EASILY".

The United States is positioned, both geographically and economically and by law, and has been positioned as the most difficult to conquer country in the world. Massive population, and bracketed by two oceans. And everybody is armed.

Good luck.


Anything that calls a Nazi invasion of the US anything but a longshot is speculative at best.

I'm not saying that the "outcome that happened was certain to be the outcome".

I'm saying that the Nazi invasion of the US that you have speculated about would be extraordinarily difficult to manage, even with every able bodied European man available for action. And they weren't all available.


You simply don't know what you're talking about.  On the eve of WW2, the US army was ranked EIGHTH behind that perennial powerhouse Italy.

https://www.quora.com/What-did-the-list-of-military-rankings-worldwide-look-like...

There was so little military equipment, that American  soldiers were training with fake wooden guns, as if they were little boys:

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/soldiers-training-for-war-with-makeshif...
  
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Re: 74th anniversary of D Day today
Reply #59 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:41am
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Lomelis wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:31am:
Or europe could have decided not to squeeze germany so hard after WWI that the German people might not have supported such a homicidal maniac.

No rise of Hitler, no German invasions.


If the queen had balls, she'd be the king.

Yes, the Versailles Treaty was a big cause, and the causes had causes, going infinitely back in history.  Whatever the cause, Hitler should have, and could have, been nipped in the bud.
  
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