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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade (Read 496 times)
petep
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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 10:20am
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You do understand the difference between the us govt subsidizing farmers for production and tariffs on imports and exports right?

Based on your post you don’t.

I do disagree with trump on subsidies. In japan it’s common for govt to subsidize companies enterance into new markets. To me that is their business. It’s an internal issue and has nothing to do with Good coming into or out of a country.

But if you charge a 25 percent tax when my cars enter your country don’t be pissed when I raise my tariff from 5 percent to 25 percent. Which is the current situation and all the stink.

And when I propose we mutually get rid of tariffs when you keep your mouth shut or don’t go for it, it’s clear why.

They were exposed for their lies. Trudeau should have known he was being led down a path.
  
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Greg55_99
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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #11 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 10:47am
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 10:20am:
You do understand the difference between the us govt subsidizing farmers for production and tariffs on imports and exports right?

Based on your post you don’t.

I do disagree with trump on subsidies. In japan it’s common for govt to subsidize companies enterance into new markets. To me that is their business. It’s an internal issue and has nothing to do with Good coming into or out of a country.

But if you charge a 25 percent tax when my cars enter your country don’t be pissed when I raise my tariff from 5 percent to 25 percent. Which is the current situation and all the stink.

And when I propose we mutually get rid of tariffs when you keep your mouth shut or don’t go for it, it’s clear why.

They were exposed for their lies. Trudeau should have known he was being led down a path.


Let me repeat EXACTLY what Trump said:

"No tariffs, no barriers, that's the way it should be — and no subsidies,"

Now, it would appear, TRUMP doesn't get what subsidies are.

Greg
  

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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #12 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 10:58am
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 10:20am:
You do understand the difference between the us govt subsidizing farmers for production and tariffs on imports and exports right?


In the US, the government subsidizes farmers, to smooth out the inevitable bumps in agricultural supply and demand.

In Canada, they have a system where they boost prices instead of subsidizing production -- for the exact same purpose.

The Canadians can't let subsidized US milk products enter their market without giving up their own dairy industry.

Every country erects trade protections on agricultural sectors, and for good reason.  It's every bit as important to their national security as Trump thinks our steel industry is.

We had high tariffs on Canadian lumber for decades.  Trump might not be aware of that.
  

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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #13 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:06am
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Fc I don’t understand your post. We all know that. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with re-evaluating policy and making changes.

If you look at charts with various foods and services traded between countries, and our tariffs vs theirs, there has been a terrible imbalance for many years.

I have no issues with rebalancing.

Under a free mkt eventually people get sick of paying artificially high prices. The internet has helped a great deal in this regard.
  
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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #14 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:24am
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:06am:
Fc I don’t understand your post. We all know that. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with re-evaluating policy and making changes.

If you look at charts with various foods and services traded between countries, and our tariffs vs theirs, there has been a terrible imbalance for many years.

I have no issues with rebalancing.

Under a free mkt eventually people get sick of paying artificially high prices. The internet has helped a great deal in this regard.



Not true:

Quote:
President Trump falsely claimed the United States has a trade deficit with Canada, contradicting figures from his own administration.

Trump said the inaccurate statement on Wednesday at a fundraiser. The United States has a trade surplus with Canada, according to statistics from the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis, which is a part of the executive branch.

A deficit would mean the United States bought more goods and services from Canada than Canada bought from the US. Conversely, a surplus means that Canada bought more goods and services from the United States than the other way around. 

A deficit or surplus does not mean one country took money from another country, as Trump often portrays the number.

Trump doubled down on the claim this morning, tweeting: "We do have a Trade Deficit with Canada, as we do with almost all countries (some of them massive). P.M. Justin Trudeau of Canada, a very good guy, doesn't like saying that Canada has a Surplus vs. the U.S.(negotiating), but they do...they almost all do...and that's how I know!"

The US had a $2.8 billion trade surplus with Canada last year. It also had surpluses with Canada in 2015 and 2016, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis figures

Here's how the 2017 trade deficit is calculated:

The US had a deficit of $23.2 billion last year with Canada just in goods -- everything from toys to cars.

But the US had a surplus of $25.9 billion with Canada last year in services -- everything from tourism to technology to health care.

Subtract the goods deficit from the services surplus, and you get an overall US trade surplus of $2.7 billion with Canada.

White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said Thursday that Trump was referencing just trade in goods, as opposed to goods and services.

She defended Trump by citing statistics from the Census Bureau, which uses a different formula to count imports and exports than the Bureau of Economic Analysis uses.

According to the Census Bureau, the United States ran a $17.6 billion deficit with Canada, but it counts only goods.


http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/15/news/economy/trump-canada-trade-deficit/index.ht...

In other words, when you count goods AND services, we have a surplus with Canada.

Greg
  

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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #15 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:38am
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:06am:
Fc I don’t understand your post. We all know that. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with re-evaluating policy and making changes.

If you look at charts with various foods and services traded between countries, and our tariffs vs theirs, there has been a terrible imbalance for many years.

I have no issues with rebalancing.

Under a free mkt eventually people get sick of paying artificially high prices. The internet has helped a great deal in this regard.


Trump is proposing doing away with all tariff's and subsidies.  He will meet very stiff resistance from right here in the US.  He might help dairy farmers, but he'd be hurting most other farmers.  Or more precisely, he might help those US dairy farmers who get most of their business exporting to Canada, but he'd be hurting everyone else, including US dairy farmers supplying the domestic market.

Also, by knocking out subsidies, food prices on commodities like milk would go up in the US.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea.  I'm saying that Trump has no idea what he's really proposing.

If we inspect it more closely, the idea has merit.  Let farmers (and everyone else) compete on global markets without any trade barriers.  Those who are most competitive will win market share, which is good.  Those who aren't competitive will lose, and will have to move into other lines of work where they ARE competitive.

But this brings some consequences:

- local producers can be shut down permanently
- transnational monopolies can form, killing competition
- political forces can be brought to bear on emerging economic dependencies
- military dependencies (as Trump himself points out)

And such a barrier-free market encourages a race to the bottom in terms of wages, working conditions, pollution, education, etc.
  

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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #16 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:57am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:38am:
And such a barrier-free market encourages a race to the bottom in terms of wages, working conditions, pollution, education, etc.

Regarding wages, there is no doubt cheaper wages entice companies to move but I don't think that's the prevailing effect.

But I would also argue that barrier-free trade will lead to productivity and efficiency improvements which increase real wages.

So while competition might put nominal downward pressure on wages, there is also a growth deflation story that works to raise them in real terms. I think that's been the great story over the last decade. Even as wages have stagnated, living standards continue to march ahead as we find we can enjoy the same or better comforts with ever less labor input. (the labor hours necessary to purchase most things as fallen, services are another story!)

I would expect this process to pick up steam in a true free market, and yes that would increase downward pressure on wages but just imagine the growth deflation impact!

The same phenomenon is why I do not worry about automation. I can't think of a better way to increase real wages.

Regarding pollution, yes, I do agree that polluters might move to take advantage of looser environmental laws, but the nature of the the economic process is one where the wealthier we become, the more concern we have for the environment AND the more effective we can be at doing something about it.

The pollution problem is something to focus on but I ultimately believe we will grow and develop our way out of it.

As far as education goes, its possible that technology will completely revolutionize how we educate our children and the old model of tax funded education centers, the way we have come to know them, is probably on the way out and I say good riddance!
  

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petep
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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #17 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:58am
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Fc I don’t believe trump really wants this. But by proposing it and getting the others reaction (which was no way never) he exposed their lie. It’s negotiation 101.

And Greg, no one discusses trade on a nominal basis. It’s always adjusted on a per capita basis, relative to the class and dollar value of goods.

If your family eats 10 pounds of meat and has 10 people and my family are 7 pounds and there are two of us, who ate more? See

  
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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #18 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 1:09pm
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:58am:
Fc I don’t believe trump really wants this. But by proposing it and getting the others reaction (which was no way never) he exposed their lie. It’s negotiation 101.

And Greg, no one discusses trade on a nominal basis. It’s always adjusted on a per capita basis, relative to the class and dollar value of goods.

If your family eats 10 pounds of meat and has 10 people and my family are 7 pounds and there are two of us, who ate more? See



Hmm....  Let me look at it this way.  If we (The United States) is taking in more money from them (Canada) than they take from us (a profit for us) with the current system in place, why is Trump upsetting the applecart?

Greg
  

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Re: Trump Blasts ‘Very Dishonest and Weak’ Trudeau for ‘False Statements’ on Trade
Reply #19 - Jun 11th, 2018 at 1:34pm
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 11:58am:
Fc I don’t believe trump really wants this. But by proposing it and getting the others reaction (which was no way never) he exposed their lie. It’s negotiation 101.


Seems more like Trump is exposing his own lie.  He keeps accusing Canada of that 270% tariff on dairy, but omits that it only applies to a certain kind of good, that we apply tariffs on other Canadian goods, and that we have an overall trade surplus with Canada.

As for negotiating techniques, so far he complained about Canada and the EU before the meeting.  He arrived late.  Nothing of substance happened AT the meeting.  He left early.  He attacked the attendees after leaving.  And he made this spurious proposal that his own team could have told him would backfire dramatically if it were ever to be enacted.

His only real contribution was to demand that Russia be brought back into the group.  (Again with Russia!)  By rescinding US support for the end-of-meeting statement that he himself helped draft, he is in effect taking the US *out* of G7.

Are we sick of winning yet?
  

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