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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Legitimacy? (Read 776 times)
Queshank
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Legitimacy?
Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:31pm
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Jesus Christ there's a lot of stupid people in this country.

On Rachel Maddow last night they were talking about Trump meeting with Kim Jong Un giving him "legitimacy."  They went off at length about Trump saying "It's an 'honor' to meet with Kim Jong Un."  Trump just gave propaganda to North Korea!!!! 

Like North Korea is so important that it somehow matters.  The fact that they treat North Korea in this way demonstrates just how stupid the criticisms of "legitimacy" are.  North Korea attained "legitimacy" a long crappity smacking time ago.  Like ... in the 50s.  I don't understand wtf people are smoking.  And Ulysses... you know me!  I know smoking!

Did we consider an attack by North Korea a "legitimate" threat?

Yes, yes I believe all of our news media did.

Congratulations on legitimizing North Korea!  But don't let that stop you from bitching about it when other people do it.

They keep throwing this word around.  I don't think they know what it means.

The fact that the Kim family has kept 25 million people hostage for 70 years is legitimacy.

I just read Nicholas Kristoff's infantile article in the NY Times about how Trump Was Outfoxed in Singapore, wherein he states "Trump made a huge concession — the suspension of military exercises with South Korea. That’s on top of the broader concession of the summit meeting itself, security guarantees he gave North Korea and the legitimacy that the summit provides his counterpart, Kim Jong-un."

A huge concession?  The suspension of military exercises with South Korea isn't a "concession."  Jesus Christ.  How hard would it be to start them up again?  *snap finger* There.  The military exercises are back on.  What the hell? 

Also on Maddow last night, a guest panelist discussed how she hoped Trump didn't offer a peace treaty with North Korea before denuclearization.  Because then we'd undercut the reason for having troops in South Korea. 

We have something like 24,000 troops in South Korea.

We have nearly 40,000 in Japan.

We have 35,000 in Germany.

Where are the wars?  Or are we undercutting the reason for having troops in Germany by not starting one somewhere?

These people seem like petulant children.  They sit and measure any results based on what other presidents have been unable to extract.  Then they criticize Trump for not doing things exactly like the other presidents have done.

How dumb does one have to be not to recognize the stupidity in that position?

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Spectacular Eric.
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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #1 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:35pm
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Queshank wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:31pm:
Jesus Christ there's a lot of stupid people in this country.

On Rachel Maddow last night they were talking about Trump meeting with Kim Jong Un giving him "legitimacy."  They went off at length about Trump saying "It's an 'honor' to meet with Kim Jong Un."  Trump just gave propaganda to North Korea!!!! 

Like North Korea is so important that it somehow matters.  The fact that they treat North Korea in this way demonstrates just how stupid the criticisms of "legitimacy" are.  North Korea attained "legitimacy" a long crappity smacking time ago.  Like ... in the 50s.  I don't understand wtf people are smoking.  And Ulysses... you know me!  I know smoking!

Did we consider an attack by North Korea a "legitimate" threat?

Yes, yes I believe all of our news media did.

Congratulations on legitimizing North Korea!  But don't let that stop you from bitching about it when other people do it.

They keep throwing this word around.  I don't think they know what it means.

The fact that the Kim family has kept 25 million people hostage for 70 years is legitimacy.

I just read Nicholas Kristoff's infantile article in the NY Times about how Trump Was Outfoxed in Singapore, wherein he states "Trump made a huge concession — the suspension of military exercises with South Korea. That’s on top of the broader concession of the summit meeting itself, security guarantees he gave North Korea and the legitimacy that the summit provides his counterpart, Kim Jong-un."

A huge concession?  The suspension of military exercises with South Korea isn't a "concession."  Jesus Christ.  How hard would it be to start them up again?  *snap finger* There.  The military exercises are back on.  What the hell? 

Also on Maddow last night, a guest panelist discussed how she hoped Trump didn't offer a peace treaty with North Korea before denuclearization.  Because then we'd undercut the reason for having troops in South Korea. 

We have something like 24,000 troops in South Korea.

We have nearly 40,000 in Japan.

We have 35,000 in Germany.

Where are the wars?  Or are we undercutting the reason for having troops in Germany by not starting one somewhere?

These people seem like petulant children.  They sit and measure any results based on what other presidents have been unable to extract.  Then they criticize Trump for not doing things exactly like the other presidents have done.

How dumb does one have to be not to recognize the stupidity in that position?

Queshank


I saw that. I also liked the guy who was raging mad because our flag was positioned next to the North Korean flag.
Suspending military exercises is not a concession as we still have a base in South Korea with over 30,000 troops.

The chances of any of this succeeding is very low. Low enough that there is no need to make up reasons why it has already failed.
  

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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #2 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:37pm
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Here's the danger and why this kind of shallow, "cool kids at the lunch table" behavior on the left pisses me off..

After all this going out on the plank, criticizing and predicting that notable figures on "the left" have done ... what happens if Trump is actually successful and sets up a trade deal with N Korea and actually helps bring N Korea into the modern era?

What happens if Trudeau realizes how much danger Canada's economy is in and backs down and gives concessions to Trump?  Potentially starting a cascade of other countries following suit?  Because that's a very real danger.  Canada's economy is almost completely dependent on the United States.  We're their largest trading partner.  Canadian news is full of warnings about the danger to their economy and warnings by Canadian analysts that Canada may have to give up more of their protectionist policies than they want.

How long can people keep up the illusion of Trump being the protectionist outlier, when the fact is every country in the world is a "protectionist" country?

Do people not realize what is at stake here while they play games and jerk each other to feel better about losing the 2016 election?

We are in danger of "Trumpism" becoming synonymous with America for a very, very long time to come. 

I'm not even saying any of that is going to happen.

I'm saying that's the risky bet people on the left are making.  And it really doesn't seem like they know what's in the cards any better than Trump.  It's literally a coin toss.  You feel comfortable with betting the future of liberalism on a coin toss?  I don't.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #3 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:43pm
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Spectacular Eric. wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:35pm:
I saw that. I also liked the guy who was raging mad because our flag was positioned next to the North Korean flag.


Right?

Maybe the problem in prior attempts at resolution with North Korea is our complete disdain for the country and determination to publicly embarrass and lecture them at every opportunity?

Quote:
The chances of any of this succeeding is very low. Low enough that there is no need to make up reasons why it has already failed.


I'm not so sure. Because the bar the media and everyone sets by comparing it to other presidents' lack of success is pretty damn low as well. 

Seems like a hell of a gamble to me when the bar for success is that low as well.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #4 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 5:02pm
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Queshank wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Right?

Maybe the problem in prior attempts at resolution with North Korea is our complete disdain for the country and determination to publicly embarrass and lecture them at every opportunity?


Well we have a habit of lecturing some countries for things they do while maintaining relationships and ignoring the same things with other countries. Especially when it comes to human rights.


Quote:
I'm not so sure. Because the bar the media and everyone sets by comparing it to other presidents' lack of success is pretty damn low as well. 

Seems like a hell of a gamble to me when the bar for success is that low as well.

Queshank


Trump has set the bar as high as possible so anything but total Denuclearization  will be considered a failure and even if he achieves that they will find something to dismiss that achievement.

They are looking mighty foolish by constantly attacking things that are obviously positive.
  

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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #5 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 5:07pm
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I don't get the "legitimacy" thing, either. It's a country, isn't it?

Certainly, it's a lame country, not unlike Iran or Iraq or Syria or Cuba. But it's still a country.
  


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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #6 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 5:07pm
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All great points Q but unfortunately you will NEVER get any concession from the left.  This is STRICTLY politics and they do not give a rats ass if Trump succeeds.  There are huge risks and it started with Trump playing hardball with NK.  We heard the whining that he is going to get us in a war.  He has a good chance of actually changing the Korean  situation and they refuse to even consider the fact he MIGHT succeed where other Presidents from BOTH parties had failed.  In all honesty I had no idea whether or not we would be in a war, but he pulled it off.  It was a VERY high risk maneuver that paid off.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #7 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 5:42pm
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You will never get an ideologue to acknowledge success by a moderate or conservative

Someone comes up with a talking point and they all repeat it. Legitimacy is their word.
  
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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #8 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 5:47pm
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Queshank wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Here's the danger and why this kind of shallow, "cool kids at the lunch table" behavior on the left pisses me off..

After all this going out on the plank, criticizing and predicting that notable figures on "the left" have done ... what happens if Trump is actually successful and sets up a trade deal with N Korea and actually helps bring N Korea into the modern era?

What happens if Trudeau realizes how much danger Canada's economy is in and backs down and gives concessions to Trump?  Potentially starting a cascade of other countries following suit?  Because that's a very real danger.  Canada's economy is almost completely dependent on the United States.  We're their largest trading partner.  Canadian news is full of warnings about the danger to their economy and warnings by Canadian analysts that Canada may have to give up more of their protectionist policies than they want.

How long can people keep up the illusion of Trump being the protectionist outlier, when the fact is every country in the world is a "protectionist" country?

Do people not realize what is at stake here while they play games and jerk each other to feel better about losing the 2016 election?

We are in danger of "Trumpism" becoming synonymous with America for a very, very long time to come. 

I'm not even saying any of that is going to happen.

I'm saying that's the risky bet people on the left are making.  And it really doesn't seem like they know what's in the cards any better than Trump.  It's literally a coin toss.  You feel comfortable with betting the future of liberalism on a coin toss?  I don't.

Queshank

There is stupid on the left and stupid on the right.  too bad that you only see hypocrisy on just one side.
https://www.facebook.com/RealDLHughley/videos/2433282266714096/
This is about the best video that describes it all.
  

Jasmine wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 7:43pm:
Yes, I heard about this. Just goes to show McLame’s true loyalties. Hopefully, Trump won’t go to his funeral very, very soon.


TowardLiberty wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
I'll try but it might be beyond my ability. Insulting is "like 90% of what I do here."
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Re: Legitimacy?
Reply #9 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm
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Maddow is a Star Wars bar character.
  
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