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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump = Chamberlain (Read 407 times)
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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #30 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 5:36am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 11:07am:
If we don't act now to stop the North Korean threat, then there's a chance that in a few years we'll all be speaking Korean.



I like that Wink Grin
  

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un·known quan·ti·ty
noun
a person or thing whose nature, value, or significance cannot be determined or is not yet known.
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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #31 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 5:51am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 10:13am:
Neville Chamberlain, 1938, after meeting with Hitler:
"My good friends, this is the second time there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Now I recommend you go home, and sleep quietly in your beds."

Donald Trump, today, after meeting with Kim:
"Before taking office people were assuming that we were going to War with North Korea. President Obama said that North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem. No longer - sleep well tonight!"

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1006839007492308992

With a nod to Bert, now I will admit that my head is exploding...


Wasn't Chamberlain (and FDR, for that matter), unwilling to go to war at that time?  President Trump is not, but he does prefer peace.
  
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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #32 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 7:56am
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crepe05 wrote on Jun 14th, 2018 at 5:51am:
Wasn't Chamberlain (and FDR, for that matter), unwilling to go to war at that time?  President Trump is not, but he does prefer peace.


I used to be one of those who gleefully mocked Chamberlain, but I eventually realized that the situation was more complicated than how it usually presented.

England wasn't ready to go to war yet. I'm not 100% sure what his detractors (and I was once one) expect him to have done.
  



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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #33 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 9:00am
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Maestro wrote on Jun 14th, 2018 at 7:56am:
I used to be one of those who gleefully mocked Chamberlain, but I eventually realized that the situation was more complicated than how it usually presented.

England wasn't ready to go to war yet. I'm not 100% sure what his detractors (and I was once one) expect him to have done.

Good post.

I think people underestimate the impact that WWI had on the psyche of the British people, and other people throughout Europe. There had never been a war to rival the "War to End All Wars", and there were veterans with very serious and obvious injuries all over Europe to serve as reminders.

It was 20 years later. If there was a conservative approach to launching into another massive and industrialized conflict, simply because Germany was taking over (at the time) ethnically German places, I think it's best that we all take a minute and try to understand that.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #34 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 10:00am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Jun 14th, 2018 at 9:00am:
Good post.

I think people underestimate the impact that WWI had on the psyche of the British people, and other people throughout Europe. There had never been a war to rival the "War to End All Wars", and there were veterans with very serious and obvious injuries all over Europe to serve as reminders.

It was 20 years later. If there was a conservative approach to launching into another massive and industrialized conflict, simply because Germany was taking over (at the time) ethnically German places, I think it's best that we all take a minute and try to understand that.



This is very true.


The UK alone suffered around 2 million killed and injured over 4 years, from a population of under 40 million.

The wider Empire and UK fatalities were nearly a million.

The French nearly bled dry in WW1. Most politicians, in their 40s - 60s, had either served or had lost brothers, sons, friends and it was very traumatizing.


And the point about preparedness is right.

Chamberlain was a very forceful proponent of increasing the Royal Air Force in the 1920s - 30s, recognizing that the Channel was no longer such a barrier to foreign enemies. He would have known that, in 1938, that force was nowhere near ready but was very rapidly becoming so.

The Germans had mostly rearmed with fast modern fighters and bombers, the RAF still relied on earlier tech; the Hurricane and Spitfire were just entering service. Any war in 1938 would have been decided by air superiority and the Germans would have had it.


I have thought for a long time that Chamberlain basically bought time, at the cost of his own reputation, and shouldn't be reviled now.
  

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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #35 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 12:31pm
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Ars Longa, Vita Bert wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 7:52pm:
What size does Rodman take?


I saw this last night on my phone and laughed and laughed.  That's good.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #36 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 1:02pm
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Ars Longa, Vita Bert wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 7:52pm:
What size does Rodman take?

Reminds me of an old country song
WHERE'S THE DRESS  Smiley
  

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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #37 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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Did n Korea just annex a country?  Did chamberlain impose sanctions on Germany?

Fc, read some history.
  
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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #38 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 4:47pm
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Maestro wrote on Jun 14th, 2018 at 7:56am:
I used to be one of those who gleefully mocked Chamberlain, but I eventually realized that the situation was more complicated than how it usually presented.

England wasn't ready to go to war yet. I'm not 100% sure what his detractors (and I was once one) expect him to have done.

Chamberlain was also following what in many respects was established policy (see Paul Kennedy's essay, The tradition of appeasement in British foreign policy 1865–1939). Appeasement didn't start attaining negative connotations until after 1939.

Furthermore, the broad strokes of "appeasement" are actually valid policy, particularly for a power in relative decline, which is why it's still used (just don't call it appeasement).
  
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Re: Trump = Chamberlain
Reply #39 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 4:52pm
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Queshank wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 5:07pm:
Kim needed "enabling" to solidify his grip on power?


Of course he does.  Dictators are justifiably paranoid, knowing they are one coup away from being dethroned and propped in front of an anti-aircraft cannon.  Trump used the summit to play to his audience here in the US.  Kim did exactly the same thing.

Quote:
Sure you did.  You made a parallel between Adolf Hitler and Kim Jong Un.  Wildly contorted to get there.


I made a parallel between Trump and Chamberlain (as stated in the title of this thread.)  There is no contortion needed -- the two quotes in the OP are very similar.  If Trump had a functioning diplomatic corps or communications service, they would have caught that.  He himself has no idea who Chamberlain is, of course, and doesn't care.

As for whether Korea will metaphorically occupy the sudetenland, we shall see.
  

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