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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy (Read 334 times)
Ulysses
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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #20 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:11pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:51am:
I love it when people argue we are a republic and not a democracy. It's cute.


It's tediously pedantic. The last refuge of those who value neither form of government.
  

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Ulysses
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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #21 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:13pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 12:58pm:
If that were true we'd still live in caves and hunt with sticks ..




But wouldn't that make America great again?

  

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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #22 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm
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petep wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 11:47am:
I see things like the bill of rights as our countries core values. Like a company has core values. They are static, principled, should not change. Freedom of speech etc

You don’t change your core values or principles.


The so-called Bill of Rights is nothing more than a set of amendments to the Constitution. They are not legally sacrosanct; any could be repealed, replaced, superseded. The Constitution was designed to be a living document, so take your dead point of view and bury it.
  

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TowardLiberty
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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #23 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:30pm
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petep wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 11:47am:
I see things like the bill of rights as our countries core values. Like a company has core values. They are static, principled, should not change. Freedom of speech etc

You don’t change your core values or principles.

I think that's an awesome ideal. But in practice it doesn't seem to describe what we're all about here.
  

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petep
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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #24 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:32pm
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Ulysses wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
The so-called Bill of Rights is nothing more than a set of amendments to the Constitution. They are not legally sacrosanct; any could be repealed, replaced, superseded. The Constitution was designed to be a living document, so take your dead point of view and bury it.


So when the founders set to list certain unalienable rights that we have as humans, in the opening paragraph, these are rights that are subject to change? It only follows that the amendments enumerated are a subset of the constitution and declaration.
  
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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #25 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:37pm
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petep wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:32pm:
So when the founders set to list certain unalienable rights that we have as humans, in the opening paragraph, these are rights that are subject to change? It only follows that the amendments enumerated are a subset of the constitution and declaration.


But only to your distorted understanding of history. Those changes were only the first of many to follow.

And too, isn't one of the right's goals setting up a constitutional convention and change everything?
  

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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #26 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:42pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:37pm:
But only to your distorted understanding of history. Those changes were only the first of many to follow.

And too, isn't one of the right's goals setting up a constitutional convention and change everything?


Sure. Someone could seize power and take control of the media etc and force a convention at gunpoint and say no more free speech, no more 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Etc.

The founders points were these are rights that do not flow from man but from a higher power and all govt does is protect them.

That said, there have been and are today many places that See rights flowing from govt. ussr, Cuba, n Korea, pretty much any far left communist country etc.
  
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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #27 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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petep wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:42pm:
The founders points were these are rights that do not flow from man but from a higher power and all govt does is protect them.



All "Rights" are the product of sentient beings  .. it's stunningly ridiculous to think Rights were granted by some higher power.

  

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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #28 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 2:05pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:51pm:
All "Rights" are the product of sentient beings  .. it's stunningly ridiculous to think Rights were granted by some higher power.

   


The entire writings of the founders focused on the point I made. That these rights specifically do not come from man. How do you not know this? I’m asking a serious question.
  
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Re: shhh - don't let the children hear that word, or republicans disdain for democracy
Reply #29 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 2:09pm
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This may help

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/09/23/what-di...

The entire basis of the founding principles of our country has its roots here.

It’s like you are trying to debate aeronautics without knowing gravity and forces exist.
  
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