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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Will Trump destroy NATO? (Read 512 times)
Josie
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #40 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:07pm
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Greg55_99 wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 2:43pm:
It is about Russia.  NATO stands against Russian expansion into Europe.  Ask the Ukraine if they wished they'd taken up a membership in NATO when they had the chance.  Too late now.  On the other hand, the Poles joined NATO because they know what a Russian invasion looks like.  So do the Czechs, Hungarians and Slovaks.  Russia is afraid of NATO.  Putin wants them weakened.  Your savior Trump is helping him out.

Greg

So if NATO stands against Russian expansion into Europe why would Germany allow Russia to expand in Germany with the Nordic Stream pipeline?
If Trump is "helping" Russia by "weakening" NATO are you saying that NATO would be weaker with more money going into it?
  
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #41 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:14pm
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That's called "commerce".  Germany buying gas from Russia is called commerce.  The United States buys good and materials from Russia as well. 

That has NOTHING to do with mutual defense.

Greg
  

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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #42 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:41pm
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Archie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 2:32pm:
I think you are having a mental breakdown. Russia Russia Russia, is your mentality. Wrong wrong wrong. The problem here is with the (D) socialist party. They want us to be another Russia type run country. Everyone on their knees with their hands out to the government. Is that you Greg?

Smiley



That isn't even remotely a description of Russia, not for a generation.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #43 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:46pm
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Josie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:07pm:
So if NATO stands against Russian expansion into Europe why would Germany allow Russia to expand in Germany with the Nordic Stream pipeline?
If Trump is "helping" Russia by "weakening" NATO are you saying that NATO would be weaker with more money going into it?



That pipeline is a commercial development that will allow Germany to buy gas. I thought Conservatives like trade?

Gas makes up appx. 20% of Germany's energy use, and Russia supplies appx. 60% of it. So, Russia supplies appx. 12% of Germany's energy needs - rather less than Germany gets from renewables and from indigenous coal.

Mr. Trump said that Russia 'controls 60% of Germany's energy', which is not true.

Germany has plans to reduce, long term, fossil use; Russia had better be making plans that don't rely on sales of gas and oil or Russia's future, economically, will be even worse than its present.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #44 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:51pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 2:46pm:
What you are arguing is that we should turn our heads to the costs to our nation while they spend little for their own defense?  I have no issue with supporting NATO, but I have issues when it is all off of our backs.  We have a 20 trillion dollar debt, time to assess our finances and alliances when nations rely on us for their defense spending while they get to pour their own resources to their GDP with little costs to their budget.  That is called free loading.


I've made this point before but no Conservative (except Patrick) even answers it.


You pay a lot of money for your absurdly overblown military.

You take the lead in NATO.


Apart from semi-conspiraloon ideas about military industries subverting Government spending, what is this for?

Well, I can suggest something.

You are buying two things.

1. leadership and pre-eminence in the Western world, influence and attention everywhere.

2. if there's ever a hot war, it will be in Europe not closer to home


OK, a third, you have a very healthy overseas market for your excellent military toys.

Grumbling about NATO nations underspending misses the point. You want a pecking order, you want to be top. If everyone else takes the strain, why would they be grateful and so on?
  

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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #45 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:36pm
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If we (the US) want to be the "Leader of the Free World", then of course we pay more for our obscenely large military. Empire is expensive.

Was not NATO's original mission to counter Communism and the Soviet threat? Does not Putin long for the glory days of Russian power and has invaded countries to prove it? Who gets the most out of our belligerent POTUS' demands and the associated acrimony?

I'll give him some wiggle room as previous Presidents have tried to get NATO members to pony up, mostly unsuccessfully. But his delivery?

Putin has to be grinning from ear to ear.

Bravo Mr. President and stay classy!  Roll Eyes

  

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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #46 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:39pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:36pm:
If we (the US) want to be the "Leader of the Free World", then of course we pay more for our obscenely large military. Empire is expensive.

Was not NATO's original mission to counter Communism and the Soviet threat? Does not Putin long for the glory days of Russian power and has invaded countries to prove it? Who gets the most out of our belligerent POTUS' demands and the associated acrimony?

I'll give him some wiggle room as previous Presidents have tried to get NATO members to pony up, mostly unsuccessfully. But his delivery?

Putin has to be grinning from ear to ear.

Bravo Mr. President and stay classy!  Roll Eyes


How does adding more money to NATO make Putin smile?
  
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #47 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:45pm
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Limey. wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:46pm:
That pipeline is a commercial development that will allow Germany to buy gas. I thought Conservatives like trade?

Gas makes up appx. 20% of Germany's energy use, and Russia supplies appx. 60% of it. So, Russia supplies appx. 12% of Germany's energy needs - rather less than Germany gets from renewables and from indigenous coal.

Mr. Trump said that Russia 'controls 60% of Germany's energy', which is not true.

Germany has plans to reduce, long term, fossil use; Russia had better be making plans that don't rely on sales of gas and oil or Russia's future, economically, will be even worse than its present.

Why does Germany sanction Russia while theyre purchasing 60% of their natural gas from them?
  
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #48 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:45pm
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Josie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:39pm:
How does adding more money to NATO make Putin smile?

Who's adding more money?
  
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #49 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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Josie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:39pm:
How does adding more money to NATO make Putin smile?


Creating conflict among NATO partners makes Putin smile.  Driving a wedge between his enemies makes him smile.

Greg
  

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