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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Will Trump destroy NATO?
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Will Trump destroy NATO? (Read 808 times)
Josie
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #50 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm
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Demos wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:45pm:
Who's adding more money?

Watch the video in the op... Trump has gotten other countries to add billions more to NATO.
  
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Josie
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #51 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm
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Greg55_99 wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:46pm:
Creating conflict among NATO partners makes Putin smile.  Driving a wedge between his enemies makes him smile.

Greg

Buying gas and pipelines from Putin makes Putin smile.
  
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Greg55_99
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #52 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:49pm
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Josie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:45pm:
Why does Germany sanction Russia while theyre purchasing 60% of their natural gas from them?


Sanctions.

Greg
  

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Greg55_99
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #53 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:52pm
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Josie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Buying gas and pipelines from Putin makes Putin smile.


And that has what to do with a mutual defense against Russia?  Buying from Russia is not the same as defending yourself against an invasion from Russia.

Get the difference.

Greg
  

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Mojo-Jojo
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #54 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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Josie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:39pm:
How does adding more money to NATO make Putin smile?


The extorted additional funds won't bring a smile but the division sure is. Divide and conquer is a sound military/geo-political strategy. The best part? The division is internal and avoidable...Putin doesn't have to do a thing as Trump's causing it himself.

Again, I get it and am trying to give him room to play his game but at BEST, NATO member countries will contribute a bit more to the alliance financially. Yay. Worst case? The alliance disintegrates.




  

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Demos
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #55 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:56pm
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Josie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Watch the video in the op...

Can't watch the video, and I suspect it doesn't go into much detail.

Quote:
Trump has gotten other countries to add billions more to NATO.

So, why are we still bitching?

If this article is correct, then they're on target to meet the 2 percent goal:

"In 2014, NATO members pledged to spend at least 2 percent of their GDP on defense by 2024. In Europe, only Estonia, Greece and the U.K. achieved the goal last year. Poland, one of Europe’s fastest-growing economies, was at 1.99 percent. The target will be met by eight NATO countries in 2018 and by at least 15 alliance members by 2024, according to Stoltenberg."
  
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #56 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:53pm:
The extorted additional funds won't bring a smile but the division sure is. Divide and conquer is a sound military/geo-political strategy. The best part? The division is internal and avoidable...Putin doesn't have to do a thing as Trump's causing it himself.

Again, I get it and am trying to give him room to play his game but at BEST, NATO member countries will contribute a bit more to the alliance financially. Yay. Worst case? The alliance disintegrates.








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Demos
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #57 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 5:17pm
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Some interesting background and critique of the 2 percent goal...

Quote:
...NATO largely brought the 2 percent emphasis on itself. At the height of operations in Afghanistan, the alliance’s planning system focused on measuring capability and commitment. As NATO shrunk its operations in that country, and the United States and Europe contracted defense spending as a result of budget deficits, the alliance turned to measuring costs. In the absence of a significant external threat to the alliance (less than one year before Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea, and in the midst of a significant migration crisis in Europe), NATO heads of state formally embraced the aim of each member spending 2 percent of its respective GDP on defense as one of the alliance’s primary metrics of commitment. Long an informal target for allied defense spending, the Wales Summit marked the first official endorsement that allies would “aim to move toward the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets.”

The Wales Summit language was soft as far as pledges go. What likely appealed to allies about the 2 percent target was the simplicity of a verifiable input measure that could be used to signal a country’s political willingness to share in the burden of collective defense. According to 2017 estimates, only four member states (the United States, Greece, United Kingdom, and Estonia) currently meet the threshold while Poland falls just short of the mark at 1.99 percent. Eleven more of the 28 NATO military states (excludes Iceland, which has no armed forces) are expected to meet the spending threshold by 2024, the time frame specified at Wales.

The limitations of 2 percent as a metric have been widely recognized and debated. By measuring inputs rather than outputs, the 2 percent goal relays almost no useful information about what countries spend money on and the value of their purchases in contributing to collective defense. For instance, Greece makes the threshold, but most of its spending is on salaries and pensions. France does not make the threshold, but its forces have routinely deployed alongside the United States for advanced operations in Syria, Iraq, and North Africa. Moreover, measuring defense investments as a percent of GDP prejudices against countries who outperform their GDP goals. In 2017, for instance, Poland and Romania were expected to meet the 2 percent threshold, but fell short due to unexpected growth in GDP...

Source
  
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Jasmine
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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #58 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 5:29pm
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Do you agree or disagree with this statement: "America needs NATO more than NATO needs America"? Or is it the other way around?
  


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Re: Will Trump destroy NATO?
Reply #59 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 5:52pm
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Jasmine wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Do you agree or disagree with this statement: "America needs NATO more than NATO needs America"? Or is it the other way around?

I say it is an equal partnership.  Get off of your high horse.  Greater nations than this one have been torn down.
  

Jasmine wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 7:43pm:
Yes, I heard about this. Just goes to show McLame’s true loyalties. Hopefully, Trump won’t go to his funeral very, very soon.


TowardLiberty wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
I'll try but it might be beyond my ability. Insulting is "like 90% of what I do here."
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