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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection (Read 940 times)
FEZZILLA
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #10 - Jul 16th, 2018 at 9:35pm
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This post isn't about the age of the earth. Though I don't see why God couldn't have created the earth just as it says in Genesis He did. With that said, I agree with the Biblical view and know enough about evolution theory and its dating scheme of the earth not to trust it.

The best way to discredit evolution theory is to watch an atheists quote from the Bible when criticizing it. This has brought many new converts to Christianity since nobody wants to believe the lies of liars. And when young people see how the atheists have manipulated Scripture they tend to not want to trust atheists. An honest person will quote Scripture responsibly. Since atheists can't do that it goes against the entire theory of evolution -- including their dating scam.
« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2018 at 1:06am by FEZZILLA »  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #11 - Jul 16th, 2018 at 9:52pm
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FEZZILLA wrote on Jul 16th, 2018 at 9:35pm:
This post isn't about the age of the earth. Though I don't see why God couldn't have created the earth just as it says in Genesis He did. With that said, I agree with the Biblical view and know enough about evolution theory and its dating scheme of the earth not to trust it.

The best way to discredit evolution theory is to watch an atheists quote from the Bible when criticizing it. This has brought many new converts to Christianity since nobody wants to believe the lies of liars. And when young people see how the atheists of manipulated Scripture they tend to not want to trust atheists. An honest person will quote Scripture responsibly. Since atheists can't do that it goes against the entire theory of evolution -- including their dating scam.


It's stuff like this that makes Christians look like idiots.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #12 - Jul 16th, 2018 at 11:00pm
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So who's opinion should matter most to me, you or my Creator?  The Bible clearly states that man's very nature is hostile to him.  My soul does not depend on your view of me, but on God's grace and mercy.  You have a lot riding on your choice and if wrong...  I am not rooting for you to be wrong, but in the end it is your choice.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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FEZZILLA
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #13 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 6:55am
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What is historically proven is the fact that the gentiles and their kings did come to the light of the Messiah and they did help rebuild Israel when the Jews returned to their homeland as Deut.30:1-10 & Isaiah 60:10 said would happen thousands of years before the prophecy fulfilled.

The scientific proof is seen in Isaiah 60:8. These are airplanes seen traveling to Israel carrying Jews on board thousands of years before the Write brothers ever flew!

The most accurate English translation of the Bible is the 1537 Matthew's Bible (as well as the 1549 edition). Isaiah 60:8 in the 1537 Matthew-Tyndale Bible reads:

Quote:
But what are these that fle here like the cloudes, and as the doues flyenge to their wyndowes?


What are these? The question is not being asked to Isaiah's contemporaries. It's being asked to you.

The 1539 Great Bible is a sister version of the Matthew's Bible. It says the same thing:

Quote:
But what are these, that fle here lyke the cloudes, & as the doues flyenge to theyr wyndowes?


Again from the 1568 Bishop's Bible,

Quote:
But what are these that flee here like the cloudes, and as the doues fleing to their windowes


The 1611 KJV changes it from what to who?

Quote:
Who are these that flie as a cloude, and as the doues to their windowes?


What and Who?

Answer to What?: an airplane (or airplanes)

Answer to Who?: The Jews aboard the airplanes.

Isaiah 60:1-10 cannot fulfilled unless the Messiah as already come. Jesus is the Messiah and we see observable proof of this in fulfilled prophecies which were to take place after His rising.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #14 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 7:47pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 16th, 2018 at 11:00pm:
So who's opinion should matter most to me, you or my Creator?


There's no evidence that a creator exists and no evidence that you have his/her/its/their word.  You get to choose between the painstaking work of the last 150+ years of science or a ridiculously literal interpretation of a 3000 year-old epic poem.

Quote:
The Bible clearly states that man's very nature is hostile to him.


Pretty clearly wrong, considering how many times belief in a god or gods was independently invented.

Quote:
You have a lot riding on your choice and if wrong...


If wrong, I made a good-faith evaluation of the evidence presented, came to a conclusion he didn't like, and didn't try to fake my way into his good graces.  A genuinely virtuous god would appreciate that more than faking belief for cultural capital or political gain (atheist pastors) or professing genuine belief while covering up crimes to help make god look good (priests covering up boy rape).  If he doesn't appreciate honest evaluation, he is unworthy of worship, and his heaven would be just another hell, in fact, probably worse than the sulfur & brimstone one.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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FEZZILLA
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #15 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 9:33am
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BowHunter wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 5:03pm:
There's no historical proof and even less scientific proof of "jesus' resurrection. If there were then science would be something very different from what it actually is. Science wouldn't be the origin of interplanetary rockets, computers, laser beams, organ transplant, greatly extended life-expectancy... to name a few. It would be the attribute of superstitious idiots who would exploit the stupidity of people even worse of intellectually than them and the most advanced device would likely be a bow and arrow or a club.

However, science being the extraordinarily efficient discipline that we all know and benefit greatly from, it won't give proof to such insane claims. You'll have to manufacture them yourselves, which is what you people do anyway.


Well I think you are being too hostile against what I posted. I did say at the beginning of my last post that if you don't want to know then you won't ever know. You can reject evidence on a bias but it doesn't mean your bias is correct.

I often wonder how atheists can make the claim that modern science came from atheists when history doesn't record any atheists responsible for the rise of modern science. Its looks to me like we Christian had science moving along real well before Darwin. Perhaps you might want to check science history again. I don't think you're gonna find an atheist back then. 

If you did not have so much hostility in you against the Bible you would be able to read my post and see a truth that is so amazing that its like seeing God. Everything in those prophecies is proven and fulfilled. You just don't want to believe. Well, if you want to believe than you won't. That simple. Though I would at least read it again with a clear mind before jumping to conclusions.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #16 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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FEZZILLA wrote on Jul 24th, 2018 at 9:33am:
often wonder how atheists can make the claim that modern science came from atheists when history doesn't record any atheists responsible for the rise of modern science.


Where are the atheists saying this?  Quote them.

Quote:
Everything in those prophecies is proven and fulfilled.


There are tons of unfulfilled messianic prophecies, which Jews have been hammering Christians on for the last 2000 years.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Supporting prophecies for Jews return to Israel in 1948
Reply #17 - Jul 24th, 2018 at 5:09pm
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FEZZILLA wrote on Jul 13th, 2018 at 11:56pm:
Isaiah 60:10 is well supported by other amazing prophecies in the Torah. But this requires a little reading if one wants to understand any of this.

These first two prophecies are about the scattering of the Jews all over the world, from one end of the earth to the other.

Leviticus 26:33-35 New King James Version (NKJV)

33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.


This prophecy was not fulfilled until A.D.70., as the land of Israel was to become desolate. Israel was never desolate until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem. The following link is a very long passage but most important to understand, as it is in context with the prophecy above.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut.28.15-68&version=NKJV

Here again the Jews would be scattered all over the world and Israel would no longer be the home of the Jews. God knew from the time of the Exodus that the Jews were a stiff necked people as this passage clearly says. When the Jews killed God the Son that was the last straw and God delivered them over to their enemies and this time they would be scattered all over the world and for a prolonged period of time as the prophecy says. They would go mad and worship other gods. This is clearly fulfilled with the Bolshevik revolution which were atheist Jews who wanted for worship the state and a dictator over God. Then there are clear references to Nazi Germany right here in the Torah!

The last verse of the above link is also important to understand. When the Romans came in and destroyed Jerusalem, they slaughtered thousands of Jews and enslaved the survivors. These same survivors were sold as slaves to Egypt to work the mines...just as it is written in the Torah would happen to them!

But two chapters later, we also see how God will bless Israel after He struck them (Isaiah 60:10).

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut.30%3A1-10&version=NKJV

Here the Jews return and bless their land which produce is included in the blessing.

When the Jews returned to Israel in 1948, they turned the desolate land, a dry rocky wasteland, into a green oasis!

So from these passages alone, beginning in A.D.70, we read about the scattering of the Jews from one end of the earth to the other. We so how they were at many times oppressed after this scattering. And while not all Jewish history is full of oppression, we do see how the madness of the Jews, being disconnected from God, drove many of them to insanity which rose up communism which is madness. Nazi Germany took a toll on the Jews as 6-million of them were mercilessly exterminated.  Though after the War the Jews returned to Israel and this time blessed. The curses of Deut.28:15-68 will not be placed on all those nations who hate Israel.

So the prophecies are authentic and fulfilled. Thousands of years of world history in the Bible and Isaiah chapter 60 starts at the resurrection and ascension of Christ and continues throughout eternity.

All excellent points that reveal that fulfilled prophesy validates God's word.  The Bible is loaded with prophesies, many fulfilled and other spending.  That is what makes scripture so unique.  Isaiah 53 was the prophesy of the death of Jesus.  Many Jews do not study Isaiah 53 yet it reveals their Messiah as foretold who they refuse to acknowledge Jesus as.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #18 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 9:00am
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Running Deer wrote on Jul 24th, 2018 at 4:53pm:
Where are the atheists saying this?  Quote them.


There are tons of unfulfilled messianic prophecies, which Jews have been hammering Christians on for the last 2000 years.


I've never lost no debate with a Jew on Messianic prophecies before. I understand prophecy very well....well enough to be able to find several prophecies throughout the entire Torah which cannot fulfill unless the Messiah has already come. Ironically, all those prophecies are fulfilled and can be all proven fulfilled.

I have atheists say to me all the time how Christians don't know science, how the Bible cannot produce scientific thought etc., etc. I will continue to hear these claims and many more times before this month is over. I hear this many times a week. There is an accusation being leveled by atheists which is saying that Christian faith cannot produce modern science. But history has already destroyed those false claims. When modern science was established and booming, there was not an atheist among those great men of science. Those great minds of science that kicked it all off and made one great achievement after the other were all Christians who read and believed the Bible, confessing with conviction that the Bible is the word of God. Even today many Christians are still making major progress in the medical field.

If atheists don't want to constantly be reminded of who started off modern science, then perhaps they should stop trying to say modern science was an atheist endeavor. Modern science was not an atheist endeavor so atheists lose their argument before it even begins.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #19 - Jul 25th, 2018 at 9:29am
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Running Deer wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 7:47pm:
There's no evidence that a creator exists and no evidence that you have his/her/its/their word.  You get to choose between the painstaking work of the last 150+ years of science or a ridiculously literal interpretation of a 3000 year-old epic poem.


Pretty clearly wrong, considering how many times belief in a god or gods was independently invented.


If wrong, I made a good-faith evaluation of the evidence presented, came to a conclusion he didn't like, and didn't try to fake my way into his good graces.  A genuinely virtuous god would appreciate that more than faking belief for cultural capital or political gain (atheist pastors) or professing genuine belief while covering up crimes to help make god look good (priests covering up boy rape).  If he doesn't appreciate honest evaluation, he is unworthy of worship, and his heaven would be just another hell, in fact, probably worse than the sulfur & brimstone one.

Poems do not prophesy.  This poem you like to refer to foretold of the coming of the one we refer to as Jesus (Is. 53).  It also contains enormous historical facts as well as a documentation of the life of Jesus Christ.  History does not deny his existence that the Bible witnesses to.  Your other claim regarding Priest who have raped children, yes, they too will face God's punishment without repentance.

  The Bible clearly states that those who healed, prophesied, preached... will one day stand before him and he will say, depart from me, I never knew you (Matt 7:21-23).  You can not fake it when it comes to God.  Many profess to be Christians and yet do not even remotely live for Jesus, some do not even know how one is saved.  This is why the Bible is very clear that God rejects the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).

  Everyone of us are not deserving of his grace because we have all sinned in God's eyes.  No one is righteous, No one seeks God (Rom 3:10-12).  If you or I could, why then would we need God?  There would never have been a reason for Jesus to die in our place, to take the punishment of our lawlessness.  He did this out of his love for us which is missed by so many people.

  He did not have to do this but out of his grace AND his mercy he did so on our behalf.  I KNOW I am a sinner, I also KNOW I am not even remotely worthy of his favor and yet he grants it to me through his son out of his love for us, undeserving as I am.  To me, that kind of love is nearly impossible for me to comprehend and because of this love I desire to want to serve him, I desire to want to please him.

  I am by NO MEANS better then you, I am just as bad as anyone else on this forum.  I (I have broken every one of God's commandments) have enormous capability to do harm to others yet he still desires me to be his child.  The story of the prodigal son is the best example of who God is (Luke 15:11-32).
« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2018 at 9:37am by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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