Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereReligion Forum › Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection (Read 1,833 times)
Willys Wonka - Ex-Member
LNF Party Leader
***
Offline

Part time God

Posts: 4,941
Joined: Aug 17th, 2017
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #70 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 12:35pm
Print Post  
FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Are you not intelligent enough to understand .. 


I'm not the one that believes in a creator.. That puts you on par with bronze age goat herders.  If we're going by the number of your ill-conceived arguments I've destroyed, that puts me orders of magnitude more intelligent that you can ever hope to be ..

Still.. we're all enjoying the "I'm smarter than you" defense you're putting up .. it's super-duper convincing..


FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Show me in the verse where Isaiah says clouds are planes:


Isaiah says 'clouds' .. YOU claim that clouds are aircraft ..  Isaiah doesn't seem to be as dishonest as you're being..


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Running Deer
LNF Majority Leader
LNF Bunker
***
Offline

Disloyal Opposition

Posts: 5,074
Joined: Dec 10th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #71 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 6:55pm
Print Post  
FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Are you not intelligent enough to understand how an ancient man might compare something flying in the air to clouds or birds?


Here's the basic problem.  You want to read prophecy literally when it lines up with literal facts and figuratively when it doesn't.  You want "flies like a cloud" to be literal enough to refer to airplanes but not literal about the mechanism of flight.  It's either literal or it's not: you can't take a passage to be literal for the things you want and not literal for the things you don't.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 25,171
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #72 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 9:52pm
Print Post  
Running Deer wrote on Aug 14th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
Here's the basic problem.  You want to read prophecy literally when it lines up with literal facts and figuratively when it doesn't.  You want "flies like a cloud" to be literal enough to refer to airplanes but not literal about the mechanism of flight.  It's either literal or it's not: you can't take a passage to be literal for the things you want and not literal for the things you don't.

The Bible speaks literally and figuratively and when read in context it is clear, but that is the key.  Numerous studies by those who have a grasp of Hebrew also assist to help us understand the author.  The earth hangs on nothing is clear.  The four corners of Israel is clearly figuratively for example.  Biblical prophesy is written from the perspective of those who had no means of describing what was revealed to them far into the future, ie. Revelation.  So often descriptions of events is written in their best attempt to describe something undescribable.  Revelation and Daniel speaks about the Dragon, the lion, the rooster, the seven headed leopard and the Eagle.  Symbols that Daniel was not privileged to understand that the Bible said would be revealed in the latter days.  Take for example, Isaiah 53 which was a mystery to the Jews (still is) and yet it is very clear that the prophet was speaking of Jesus and what he would endure on our behalf.  A fulfilled prophesy.
« Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2018 at 10:00pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willys Wonka - Ex-Member
LNF Party Leader
***
Offline

Part time God

Posts: 4,941
Joined: Aug 17th, 2017
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #73 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 10:29am
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Aug 14th, 2018 at 9:52pm:
The Bible speaks literally and figuratively and when read in context it is clear, but that is the key..


At time passages have been taken literal and at other times the same passages are taken figuratively.. . .. Knowing when to take one way or the other is complete guesswork and entirely up to the individual reading the passage. That dichotomy renders the content useless in real world applications .. 



Seawolf wrote on Aug 14th, 2018 at 9:52pm:
Numerous studies by those who have a grasp of Hebrew also assist to help us understand the author.


That still can't be used as a guide for knowing when to take the passage literally or figuratively



Seawolf wrote on Aug 14th, 2018 at 9:52pm:
The earth hangs on nothing is clear.  The four corners of Israel is clearly figuratively for example. .


You say that  "The earth hangs on nothing" should be taken literally and "for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them" is to be taken figuratively  ..

You say that  "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth" should be taken literally (and that "circle" actually means "globe") and "I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth"  is to be taken figuratively  ..

Your insistence that you be allowed to invoke biblical hermeneutics on a whim is incompatible with honesty .. 


Seawolf wrote on Aug 14th, 2018 at 9:52pm:
Take for example, Isaiah 53 which was a mystery to the Jews (still is) and yet it is very clear that the prophet was speaking of Jesus and what he would endure on our behalf.  A fulfilled prophesy.


There is no prophesy in the bible ..  One , you can't yourself fulfill a "prophesy" of which you are aware. And two, you can't simply say that you predicted an event AFTER the event has taken place.


As I said ..

Willys Wonka - Ex-Member wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 11:17pm:
Nope.. What I proved is that there is no prophecy. 

Take the triumphant ride into Jerusalem..  Jesus being a rabi knew of the prophecy and did the things that the prophecy said the Messiah would do.  Thing is..it's not a prophecy if you know the event and the signs beforehand and do them yourself.. 


Would it be a prophecy if I said that next Tuesday the Great God Zarquon (thanks Douglas) would appear at Speedy's Barbecue in Lexington, NC.  wearing a pig snout,  carrying a bottle of spicy vinegar sauce and ordering a chopped plate with coleslaw and a tray of pork skins.  And then I did that claiming to be Zarquon. ..

Would that be a prophecy?

BTW.. Genuflect and lower your gaze when you see me...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 25,171
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #74 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 2:46pm
Print Post  
Thank you for demonstrating your lack of understanding of scripture.  You MAY have read the bible but studying scripture is obviously not something you have done.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 25,171
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #75 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 2:50pm
Print Post  
Willys Wonka - Ex-Member wrote on Aug 15th, 2018 at 10:29am:
There is no prophesy in the bible ..  One , you can't yourself fulfill a "prophesy" of which you are aware. And two, you can't simply say that you predicted an event AFTER the event has taken place.





I have to state you do amuse me.  Of course it was fulfilled knowing that it was prophesied by the prophets.  Fulfilled by God who revealed it to his prophets.  Jesus OPENLY admits he came to fulfill the prophesy.  Now he could not possibly be God if he was not aware of his own revelation to his people of the action that was required by him in order to save mankind.  Sometimes you are not real bright concerning scripture.  Sometimes...I meant to say often.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BowHunter
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 19,778
Location: America
Joined: Dec 5th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #76 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 4:44pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Aug 15th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
I have to state you do amuse me.  Of course it was fulfilled knowing that it was prophesied by the prophets.  Fulfilled by God who revealed it to his prophets.  Jesus OPENLY admits he came to fulfill the prophesy.  Now he could not possibly be God if he was not aware of his own revelation to his people of the action that was required by him in order to save mankind.  Sometimes you are not real bright concerning scripture.  Sometimes...I meant to say often.

The Christian OT has been modified to take into account changes in the "prophecy". It's no wonder that the Jews don't recognize Jesus, he was never prophetized that way in THEIR bible, which happens to be the original one...

You people have big-brothered the bible... the way Big Brother changes the past to make it seem like the present was something aimed at from the beginning instead of a fiasco.
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 25,171
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #77 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 5:14pm
Print Post  
BowHunter wrote on Aug 15th, 2018 at 4:44pm:
The Christian OT has been modified to take into account changes in the "prophecy". It's no wonder that the Jews don't recognize Jesus, he was never prophetized that way in THEIR bible, which happens to be the original one...

You people have big-brothered the bible... the way Big Brother changes the past to make it seem like the present was something aimed at from the beginning instead of a fiasco.

If you are going to make the claim then present your evidence.  How about a link to support your falsehood.  Simple allegations without support does not make your claim valid.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BowHunter
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 19,778
Location: America
Joined: Dec 5th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #78 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 5:17pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Aug 15th, 2018 at 5:14pm:
If you are going to make the claim then present your evidence.  How about a link to support your falsehood.  Simple allegations without support does not make your claim valid.


How do you account for the differences between the Torah and the Christian OT?
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 25,171
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection
Reply #79 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 5:38pm
Print Post  
BowHunter wrote on Aug 15th, 2018 at 5:17pm:
How do you account for the differences between the Torah and the Christian OT?

Cite your sources and links please.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereReligion Forum › Historical & Scientific Proof of Jesus' Resurrection

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules