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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereReligion Forum › On Religion, what Do You believe?
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) On Religion, what Do You believe? (Read 1,852 times)
Seawolf
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #20 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 9:26am
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Regarding what you have seen in church, of course the church if full of hypocrites, liars, thieves, adulterers, drug abusers...  Weren't these very souls sought by Jesus himself?  He did not hang out with the teachers and priests but those who were castoffs from society.

  These very people, which includes myself clearly understand that we are undeserving of God's grace and mercy more then most people.  I am not even worthy of God's attention, yet he gives it to us anyway. Again, not because I deserve it, but because he desires to give it to those who want it.

  This God, who robed himself in the flesh, took our sins to the cross and nailed it there so we could have access to him through his son.  Now, how can anyone ignore this sort of love from our Creator?  I do not have that kind of love, do you?

  He was spat on, mocked, tortured in the most inhumane way and hung on a cross for you and I by the very people he created AND he did this willingly so he could redeem us.  That history of his crucifixion is hardly deniable by most historians and seems to be backed by the historians far closer to the even then we are.

  I have done quite a bit of reading of history and I was a skeptic.  I simply can not ignore the history nor can I escape his love he poured out.  You may have your reasons, but running from God because of someone else behavior makes no sense.

  My faith is not based on someone's behavior, but on his word and the evidence I have seen.  We may not agree politically but I have no desire to see you or anyone else fall short of what God offers simply based on the behavior of someone else.  We are not perfected till we get to the other side.  The church should be a place were the rejects of society can attend in hopes of hearing God's word and his Spirit.  The Bible says He rejects the proud and gives grace to the humble.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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BowHunter
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #21 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 1:37pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 17th, 2018 at 7:14am:
That's interesting, even the Koran seem to state he was unlike any other man.  So what led you from the faith?.


But you believe that the  Koran is NOT the word of god so why would it make any difference to you? Or are you so desperate to "believe" in "god" that you'll take anything even the word of a crook as proof of his "validity"?
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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Seawolf
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #22 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 3:30pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jul 17th, 2018 at 1:37pm:
But you believe that the  Koran is NOT the word of god so why would it make any difference to you? Or are you so desperate to "believe" in "god" that you'll take anything even the word of a crook as proof of his "validity"?

So why would I be desperate and for what exactly?
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Limey.
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #23 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 3:48pm
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Running Deer wrote on Jul 16th, 2018 at 6:00pm:
I know this sounds like trolling, but I genuinely believe that less than half of COE's clergy believes in God.



I recommend this book:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2006/jun/24/featuresreviews.guardianreview15

The Scottish Churches are wildly different from the English but your point is met in this excellent novel.


If you can’t get hold of it pm me I’ll post it to you.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #24 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 4:57pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 17th, 2018 at 3:30pm:
So why would I be desperate and for what exactly?


Ok, let's try it one more time. To you, Islam is NOT a true religion and the Koran is NOT the word of god, SO... why would you take comfort in what the Koran says about Jesus? It doesn't make sense, unless you are so desperate for approval that you'll take anything even the word of a liar as "proof" of the "special nature" of Jesus.

I hope you'll get it this time because I can't dumb it down any more than that.
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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EF
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #25 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 7:42pm
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Running Deer wrote on Jul 16th, 2018 at 6:00pm:
I know this sounds like trolling, but I genuinely believe that less than half of COE's clergy believes in God.


I don't know about the percentage, but I suspect that's true of clergy in more places than just the CofE. 

But the ones I have more issues with are those who (seems to me) clearly believe in God, but also believe that every thought that pops into their heads was shot like a thunderbolt straight from the throne of God.  They do a lot more damage to believers and non-believers, IMO.
  

non sumus stulti
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accidit stercore
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EF
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #26 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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Luther wrote on Jul 17th, 2018 at 7:28am:
I did not realize there was a difference or category Huh


"Weak atheist" sounds like "agnostic" to me.

I classify atheists as "regular" and "evangelical."  Regular atheists are content in their atheism and pretty much leave "religious" people alone unless one of them tries to cram some religious dogma down their throat.  They would (rightly, IMO) object to government sponsored or sanctioned prayer in certain circumstances, one of which would be where attendance was mandatory at the event at which the prayer was offered.

Evangelical atheists are to atheism as "holy rollers" "snake handlers" are to Christianity.  They want to de-convert believers, and frequently work themselves into a lather in their attempt to do so. 

Running Deer would be an example of a regular atheist.

Bowhunter would be an example of an evangelical atheist.
  

non sumus stulti
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accidit stercore
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EF
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #27 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 7:56pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jul 17th, 2018 at 4:57pm:
Ok, let's try it one more time. To you, Islam is NOT a true religion and the Koran is NOT the word of god, SO... why would you take comfort in what the Koran says about Jesus? It doesn't make sense, unless you are so desperate for approval that you'll take anything even the word of a liar as "proof" of the "special nature" of Jesus.

I hope you'll get it this time because I can't dumb it down any more than that.


I will take the liberty of helping out Brother Seawolf a little, not that he needs it.

Whether Islam is a true religion or not or the Koran is the Word of God or not, it IS a book that was written by a man and it records some historical facts.  One of  which is Jesus was a man and many, including the man who wrote the Koran, believed He was a prophet of God.

But the fact is there is no physical proof.  God even says so.  "It is by faith you are saved, through grace, and this not of yourselves, lest any man should boast.  It is the gift of God." 

I know of a guy who says he convinced himself that Jesus was the son of God and came into a saving relationship pretty much on his own by, among other things, meditating on the Shroud of Turin.  I am not doubting he's in a saved relationship with Jesus, but I am strongly doubting he has any idea how it happened.

But he has good company.  Martin Luther was in one and didn't realize how it happened, either.  Once he did, he formulated his 95 theses, nailed them to the door, and the rest, as they say, is history.
« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2018 at 8:57pm by EF »  

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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #28 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 8:05pm
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Limey. wrote on Jul 16th, 2018 at 5:50pm:
Pretty much the same here, although I have a strange draw towards the Church of England.

It's a very broad Church but can't - quite - accept an atheist.


Maybe not as a MEMBER.  But as an ATTENDEE I feel you would be accepted. 

But there are advantages to not having your name on the congregational roll.  Having one's name on the membership roll of any congregation is not necessary to having a relationship with God.  Having one's name in the "Lamb's Book of Life" is, but being a member of a congregation won't get one's name in that book.  Also, if you're not a member, you won't likely be asked to serve on any committees.

Now, if you're an evangelical atheist you might not even be welcome as an attendee.  But I imagine regular atheists would be welcome.  They'd even be welcome at MY fairly conservative congregation.  Free to come, free to go, free to do as they please as long as they don't (metaphorically speaking) "throw bombs" at the believers. 

Their questions would be welcome.  Their discussions would be enjoyed.  But if it got to where one of them said something like "you guys are idiots to believe in that fairy tale," they would probably be encouraged to leave and not come back.

So I would encourage you to keep attending the CofE.  As a wise man once said, the CofE, despite its flaws (and every organization of people  has them), has done some good things.   They're not forcing anything down your throat, after all.  And if you get where you just can't take it any more, you can quit then.  Meanwhile, what does it hurt?
  

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EF
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Re: On Religion, what Do You believe?
Reply #29 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 8:34pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jul 16th, 2018 at 1:02pm:
Well, then, suffice it to say that a fundamental rule of Quantum Mechanics has played an important part in how I got here.


Translation: "beats the heck out of me."
  

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