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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth? (Read 1,886 times)
FEZZILLA
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Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Aug 4th, 2018 at 1:24pm
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Does the Bible teach flat or globe earth? What is the general consensus on this forum regarding the shape of the earth as understood in the Bible?
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Willys Wonka - Ex-Member
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #1 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 3:04pm
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It doesn't really matter what the bible teaches.  Whatever it says you will misrepresent it.

There.  I've paid the admission fee..  Start the show.. Get on with the entertainment.

Smiley

  
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FEZZILLA
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #2 - Aug 4th, 2018 at 3:46pm
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I think it does matter, especially since atheists have accused the Bible of teaching flat earth since evolution theory began. Since the accusation is now being entertained in this flat earth masquerade (atheists dressed up as Christians pretending to praise God for flat earth) which teaches nothing but 100% atheist skepticism on the Bible.

So if it is possible, I would like to see exactly from the most reliable sources what the Bible teaches on the matter and how we know what certain verses mean? So are atheists capable of such a topic or is discussion too deep for you that you can't follow through the accusations made over the last 150 years by atheists who say the Bible teaches flat earth?

So if atheists say the Bible teaches flat earth, can we trust their claims? If not, can we trust any of their claims?

Isaiah 40:22 King James Version (KJV)

Quote:
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."


I've always known this verse speaks about a 3D circle. But atheists say this means 2D flat circle. Do atheists have any proof of this claim or is this just another assumption meant to strip the Bible of scientific truth?
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Seawolf
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #3 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:14am
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FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 3:46pm:
I think it does matter, especially since atheists have accused the Bible of teaching flat earth since evolution theory began. Since the accusation is now being entertained in this flat earth masquerade (atheists dressed up as Christians pretending to praise God for flat earth) which teaches nothing but 100% atheist skepticism on the Bible.

So if it is possible, I would like to see exactly from the most reliable sources what the Bible teaches on the matter and how we know what certain verses mean? So are atheists capable of such a topic or is discussion too deep for you that you can't follow through the accusations made over the last 150 years by atheists who say the Bible teaches flat earth?

So if atheists say the Bible teaches flat earth, can we trust their claims? If not, can we trust any of their claims?

Isaiah 40:22 King James Version (KJV)


I've always known this verse speaks about a 3D circle. But atheists say this means 2D flat circle. Do atheists have any proof of this claim or is this just another assumption meant to strip the Bible of scientific truth?

We have had this discussion and I have shown them the science in scripture, this being one of many.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #4 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:47am
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:14am:
We have had this discussion and I have shown them the science in scripture, this being one of many.


There is no science in scripture..  A circle is a sphere as much as a cloud is an airplane..  A sphere does not have corners certainly not 4 of them..

You turn to science to prove to yourself and everyone else that your beliefs are worthy because your Faith is insufficient.
  
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:13am
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Willys Wonka - Ex-Member wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:47am:
There is no science in scripture..  A circle is a sphere as much as a cloud is an airplane..  A sphere does not have corners certainly not 4 of them..

You turn to science to prove to yourself and everyone else that your beliefs are worthy because your Faith is insufficient.

Because science and creation go hand and hand.  I know you think you have cornered science but science belongs to the Creator.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:14am
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Willys Wonka - Ex-Member wrote on Aug 4th, 2018 at 3:04pm:
It doesn't really matter what the bible teaches.  Whatever it says you will misrepresent it.

There.  I've paid the admission fee..  Start the show.. Get on with the entertainment.

Smiley


The problem is your ignorance of scripture which is on display daily.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:32am
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 10:14am:
The problem is your ignorance of scripture which is on display daily.


That's funny coming from you..
  
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 1:02pm
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Willys Wonka - Ex-Member wrote on Aug 5th, 2018 at 9:47am:
There is no science in scripture..  A circle is a sphere as much as a cloud is an airplane..  A sphere does not have corners certainly not 4 of them..

You turn to science to prove to yourself and everyone else that your beliefs are worthy because your Faith is insufficient.


Chuwg: circle, circuit, compass, sphere,

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon: H2329: Quote:
"חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h2329

The English word “circle” is the Hebrew “Chuwg,” which means to describe a circle---compass, as in a compassing circle (as in a globe shape, 3D circle). It also means circuit (Strong’s numbers H2328, H2329) Therefore chuwg (or khug) is used to describe a circle that compasses itself. The English word compass used as a verb means to surround; to encircle; to environ; to stretch round, while encompass (also used as a verb) is to form a circle around; to encircle. As a noun the word compass means a magnetic or electronic device used to determine the cardinal directions (usually magnetic or true north). The flat earth conspiracists reject the four cardinal directions in their flat earth model. They reject the reality that the polar regions (North and South) exist.
https://wikidiff.com/compass/encompass

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,

Quote:
“It is he--rather, connected to the last verse, Have ye not known?--have ye not understood Him that sitteth...? (vs.26) [MAUDER]. Circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of the sky around it, above it, He sits. For “upon” translate “above.” as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Num.13:33), as He looks down from on high (Ps.33:13, 14; 113:4-6).”


Matthew Henry's Commentary
Quote:
"Now that which is here said of God is (1.) That he has command of all creatures. The heaven and the earth themselves are under his management: He sits upon the circle, or globe, of the earth, v. 22. He that has the special residence of his glory in the upper world maintains a dominion over the lower world, gives law to it, and directs all the motions of it to his own glory. He sits undisturbed upon the earth, and establishes it. He is still stretching out the heavens, his power and providence keep them still stretched out, and will do so till the comes that they shall be rolled together like a scroll. He spreads them out as easily as we draw a curtain to and fro, opening these curtains in the morning and drawing them close again at night. And the heaven is to this earth as a tent to dwell in; it is a canopy drawn over our heads, et quod tegit omnia coelum --- and it encircles all. --Ovid. See Ps.104:2 (2.) That the children of men, even the greatest and mightiest, are as nothing before him. The numerous inhabitants of this earth are in his eye as grasshoppers in ours, so little and inconsiderable, of such small value, of such little use, and so easily crushed. Proud men's lifting up themselves is but like the grasshopper's leap; in an instant they must stoop down to the earth again. If the spies thought themselves as grasshoppers before the sons of Anak (Num.13:33), what are we before the great God? Grasshoppers live but awhile, and live carelessly, not like the ant; so do the most men. (3.) That those who appear and act against him, how formidable soever they may be to their fellow-creatures, will certainly be humble and brought down by the mighty hand of God."


Henry Morris Study Bible,

Quote:
“40:22 circle of the earth. Hebrew khug, translated “compassed” in Job 26:10 and “compass” in Proverbs 8:27. All three, in context, clearly refer to the spherical shape of the earth.
40:22 stretcheth out the heavens. This phrase is possibly a reference to the expanding universe, as envisioned by modern astronomers. There are numerous references in Scripture to the “stretching-out” or “spreading-out” of the heavens (space) when God created the universe. See, for example, Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12. Alternatively, the “heavens” referred to here may refer simply to the atmospheric heavens, spread out like a curtain or “tent to dwell in” around a circle of the earth. This atmospheric “tent”, refracting and spreading light over the hemisphere, is sharply distinct from the darkness outside.”

=======================================
How it was applied by the ancient church,

Here is 4th century Bishop Ambrose giving a reading from Isaiah 40:22.

Quote:
"And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).


Here is the English translation of Jerome's Latin Vulgate,

Quote:
"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Douay-Rheims Bible).


The English "circle" is meant to be understood as a 3D circle as seen from space.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #9 - Aug 5th, 2018 at 1:45pm
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The Hebrew chuwg in Job 26:10 and Isaiah 40:22 is meant to be understood as a 3D circle. The same Hebrew word translates to globus in Latin and sphere & orb in other languages.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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