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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth? (Read 4,840 times)
Fiddleɾ
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #60 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 2:43pm
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FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 2:05pm:
I am in the process right now in making a full corpus of round world verses.


This coin is round ..




this vision of the world held by bronze age goat herders is also round  ..

  
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #61 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 4:18pm
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Full "round world" Corpus.

Some verse numbers slightly differ from each translation. For example, Psalm 89:11 in the Matthew's Bible might be Psalm 89:12 in the Great Bible. But for the sake of ease I'm gonna keep all verse numbers in conformity to the Matthew's Bible.

1 Samuel 2:8,

Quote:
"He reyseth vp the poore out of the duste, and lyfteth vp the begger from the dong hill: to set them among princes, and to enheret them with the seate of glory. For the pyllers of the earth are the Lordes, and he hath set the rounde worlde vpon them" (1537 Matthew-Tyndale Bible).


Quote:
"He reyseth vp the poore out of the dust, and lyfteth vp the begger from the dong hyll: to sett them amonge princes, and to enherett them with the seate of glorye. For the pillers of the erth are the lordes, and he hath sett the rounde worlde vpon them" (1539 Great Bible).


Psalm 18:15,

Quote:
"The springes of waters were sene, & the foundacios of the roude worlde were discouered at yi chiding (o LORDE) at the blastinge & breth of thy displeasure" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

Quote:
"The sprynges of waters were sene, and the foundacyons of the rounde worlde were discouered at thy chidynge (O Lorde) at the blastynge and breth of thy displeasures" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Quote:
"The sprynges of waters were sene, & the foundacions of the round worlde were discouered at thy chydinge, O Lorde, at the blastynge of the breth of thy displeasure" (1539 Great Bible).


Quote:
"And the bottomes of waters appeared, and the foundations of the rounde worlde were discouered at thy chidyng, O God: at the blast of the breath of thine anger" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

Psalm 24:1,

Quote:
"The earth is the LORDES, & all that therin is: the copase of the worlde, ad all yt dwell therin" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

Quote:
"A Psalme of Dauid. The earth is the Lordes, & all that therin is: the compase of the world, & al that dwell therein" (1537 Matthew's Bible).


Quote:
"A Psalme of Dauid. The earth is the Lordes, and all that therin is: the compasse of the worlde, and they that dwell therin" (1539 Great Bible).



Psalm 89:11,

Quote:
"The heaues are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundacio of the roude worlde and all that therin is" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

Quote:
"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (1537 Matthew's Bible).


Quote:
"The heauens are thyne, the earth also is thyne: thou hast layed the foundacyon of the rounde worlde, and all that therin is" (1539 Great Bible).


Quote:
"The heauens are thine, the earth also is thine: thou hast layde the foundation of the rounde worlde, and of all the plentie that is therin" (1568 Bishop's Bible).


Psalm 93:1,

Quote:
"he hath made the rounde worlde so sure, that it can not be moued" (1535 Coverdale Bible).


Quote:
"The Lorde is kyng, and hath put on glorious apparell, the Lorde hath put on his apparell, & gyrded him selfe with strengthe: he hath made the rounde world so sure, that it can not be moued" (1537 Matthew's Bible).


Quote:
"he hath made the rounde worlde so sure, that it can not be moued" (1539 Great Bible).


Quote:
"God raigneth, he is clothed with a glorious maiestie, God is clothed with strength: he hath girded hym selfe, he hath made the worlde so sure that it can not be moued" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

Psalm 96:10,
Quote:

"Tell it out amonge the Heithe, that the LORDE is kynge: and that it is he which hath made the rounde worlde so fast, that it cannot be moued, and how that he shal iudge the people rightuously" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

Quote:
"Tell it out amonge the Heathen, that the Lorde is kynge: and that it is he, which hath made the rounde worlde so faste, that it can not be moued, and howe that he shall iudge the people righteously" (1537 Matthew's Bible).


Quote:
"Tell it out amonge the Heathen, that the Lorde is kynge: and that it is he which hath made the rounde worlde so fast, that it can not be moued, and how that he shall iudge the people ryghteously" (1539 Great Bible).


Proverbs 8:31,

Quote:
"As for the roude copase of his worlde, I make it ioyfull, for my delyte is to be amoge the children of men" (1535 Coverdale Bible).


Quote:
"As for the rounde compase of his worlde, I make it ioyfull: for my delyte is to be among the chyldren of men" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Quote:
"As for the rounde compase of thys worlde, I make it ioyfull: for my delyte is to be amonge the chyldren of men" (1539 Great Bible).

Quote:
"As for the rounde compasse of this worlde I make it ioyfull: for my delite is to be among the chyldren of men" (1568 Bishop's Bible).
« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2018 at 2:10am by FEZZILLA »  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #62 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 4:33pm
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Isaiah 34:1,

Quote:
"Come ye Heithen & heare, take hede ye people. Herke thou earth & all that is therin: thou rounde copasse & al that groweth thervpon" (1535 Coverdale Bible).


Quote:
"Come ye Heithen & heare, take hede ye people. Herken thou earth & all that is therin: thou rounde compasse & all that groweth there vpon" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Quote:

"Come ye Heythen and heare, take hede ye people. Herken thou erth & all that is therin: thou round compasse and all that groweth there vpon" (1539 Great Bible).


Quote:
"Come ye heathen and heare, take heede you people: hearken thou earth and all that is therin, thou rounde compasse and all that dwelleth thervpon" (1568 Bishop's Bible).


Jeremiah 10:12,

Quote:
"But (as for oure God) he made the earth with his power, and with his wisdome hath he fynished the whole compasse of the worlde, with his discrecion hath he spred out the heauens" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

Quote:
"But (as for oure God) he made the earth with his power, and with hys wysdom hath he fynished the whole compasse of the worlde, wyth hys discrecion hath he spred oute the heauens" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Quote:
"But (as for oure God) He made the earth wt his power, and with his wysdome doth he order the whole compasse of the worlde, with his discrecyon hath he spred out the heauens" (1539 Great Bible).


Quote:
"But as for our God he made the earth with his power, and with his wisdome doth he order the whole compasse of the worlde, with his discretion hath he spread out the heauens" (1568 Bishop's Bible).


Jeremiah 51:15,

Quote:
"Yee euen the LORDE of hoostes, that with his power made the earth, with his wi?dome prepayred ye rounde worlde, & with his discrecion spred out the heauens" (1535 Coverdale Bible).


Quote:
"Yea euen the Lorde of hostes, that wyth his power made the earthe, with hys wysedome prepared the rounde worlde, and with his discrecyon spred oute the heauens" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Quote:
"Yee, euen the Lorde of hostes, that wt his power made the earth, wt hys wysdome prepared the rounde worlde, and with his discretion spred out the heauens" (1539 Great Bible).


Quote:
"Yea euen the Lorde of hoastes that with his power made the earth, with his wisdome prepared the round world, and with his discretion spread out the heauens" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

======================================
The  verses all listed here were researched from the Strong's Blue Letter Bible site.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h8398

Verses were checked and harmonized from the site linked below.
http://textusreceptusbibles.com/Matthews/24/51

These verses also appear in original and facsimile Bibles of those linked here. For the Psalms listed from the 1539 Great Bible you can find them in any Book of Common Prayer used by Anglican Churches. I own the 1662 & 1928 BCP and the Psalter reads just like the online version except for modifications in spelling in the 1928 BCP.

Matthew's Bible facsimiles also contain same verses as found online. So none of this is some clever scam. We really were robbed by the Geneva scholars who foolishly removed the "round world" phrases correctly translated by Tyndale. The "round world" verses I have listed here come from the Hebrew word tebel and not every verse containing the word tebel means globe. The verses I have listed in this corpus are the only words which mean the entire globe of the earth and its inhabitants. I omitted tebel verses from the corpus that did not clearly mean globe.
You will notice a correlation in the usage between tebel and chuwg, especially noted in Jeremiah 10:12 & 51:15  -- both these verses tell us the story of Job 26:10,

Quote:
"He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end" (KJV).


Quote:
"He hath compaseth the waters wt certayne boundes, vntill the day and night come to an ende" (1537 Matthew's Bible).


Quote:
"He hath compased the waters with certayne boundes vntill the daye & nyght come to an ende" (1539 Great Bible).


tebel verses Proverbs 8:31, Jer.10:12, Jer.51:15 are telling us the same thing as Isaiah 26:10. These verses speak of a round encompassing of the earth's fullness -- "the globe of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22, Vulgate).
https://wikidiff.com/compass/encompass

Each of the verses listed here are in connection to the fullness of God creation and everything therein which is when tebel means globe.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #63 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 4:39pm
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Hebrew Lexicons:

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible. H8398
Quote:

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].

The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."


Make sure to see Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=h8398

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT Quote:
835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".


New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

Quote:
"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."

----------------------------------------------------
Breakdown of תֵּבֵל têbêl:

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"

Gesenius': ",the habitable globe,"

TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth"--AND-- "In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #64 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
I own the 1662 & 1928 BCP and the Psalter reads just like the online version except for modifications in spelling in the 1928 BCP.

.



I don't care if you have a bobblehead personally signed by Jesus sitting on the dash of your Gremlin.. The Earth is not supported by pillars or foundations.. "Round" does not translate to "globe"..

People like you have been misinterpreting the Bible for centuries.  It says what it says... No more. No less.
  
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #65 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 8:02pm
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FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 7th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Yes it does matter what the Bible teaches because this is all about what the Bible teaches.


It doesn't teach anything at all.  The references to the Earth are poetic, and trying to read them literally is insane.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #66 - Aug 8th, 2018 at 8:05pm
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Running Deer wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 8:02pm:
It doesn't teach anything at all.  The references to the Earth are poetic, and trying to read them literally is insane.

Ok, he has laid out an extensive case that supports his claim and all both you and Fiddler are doing are simply dismissing his point as irrelevant.  That argument carries no weight as you can not or will not refute with facts to support your claim.  He has gone well beyond what I would have posted as I have no patience to put in that amount of work KNOWING full well you would do exactly what you did with him, simply dismiss his evidence.  Not a strong counter point.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #67 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:32am
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Stronger counter-points is something you never see from these atheist pseudo-intellectuals.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #68 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:38am
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Running Deer wrote on Aug 8th, 2018 at 8:02pm:
It doesn't teach anything at all.  The references to the Earth are poetic, and trying to read them literally is insane.


Who says I have not been reading those poetic verses correctly? There are lots of commentary and lexicon work along with early church fathers which help you understand these poetic verses. For one thing, all poems have meaning. The reason why there is poetic literature that contains figurative meanings is because it better captures the spiritual meaning. But not all verses in the Bible are to be spiritualized. Some verses are hard to understand but, for the most part, you can understand most of the Bible well enough without the use of commentaries etc. But just remember that with each figurative verse there is a literal meaning behind it.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Does the Holy Bible Teach Flat or Globe Earth?
Reply #69 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 8:28am
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FEZZILLA wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:32am:
Stronger counter-points is something you never see from these atheist pseudo-intellectuals.


COUNTER POINTS TO WHAT????

All you've done is to offer imaginative interpretations to what otherwise are straightforward biblical viewpoints ..   


  
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