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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Question for liberals: the 2016 election
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Question for liberals: the 2016 election (Read 579 times)
Queshank
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #20 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 7:03pm
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Jasmine wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:48am:
True or False: If Russia had not interfered in the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton would have beaten Donald Trump.

Here are the libbies I would like to see respond:

[   ] Greg
[   ] Vyper
[   ] Fiddler
[   ] Wadsworth
[ T ] Bowhunter
[   ] BillyP
[ F ] MojoJojo
[   ] Queshank
[   ] Philip
[   ] BamaBeau
[   ] Luther

Everyone else is free to chime in, of course.  Smiley


Well, I'm glad I drove by here today and saw you ask a question of liberals so I could spot myself called out as a liberal on the boards!  It's so rare these days.

All bullshit and all "attempting to get leftists to recognize the danger both to their ideology being manipulated and perverted, AND their chances at electoral victory in the future" aside ...

I think it's true that if the Russians were responsible for the hacked emails and the wikileaks releases, they definitely impacted the vote by suppressing the Bernie Bro vote even more than Hillary did all on her own. 

Hillary was a bad candidate.  But email, email, email, email was the entire campaign.  It all blurred together.  Hacked emails and email servers in bathrooms and 30,000 deleted emails and "what, you mean with a cloth?"  The margins in some of these areas were simply too razor thin to state with confidence that the constant drip of "EMAAAAAILS!" had no impact.  And that hack added to the drip and turned it into a deluge.

Note the if. 

I'm personally skeptical that we can ever prove a hack of this nature given the ability of a skilled hacker to hide their tracks or leave tracks to implicate others. 

And ... well ... unlike the illiberal neoleftists that frequent the board ... I'm a liberal.  Which means I've spent 30 years examining the actions and behavior of our intelligence services and learned a long time ago to consider these some of the most evil and manipulative people in world history.   Believing the 4 intelligence agencies who have been being criticized by Trump for 30 years and are protecting their legacies is pretty dumb.  I don't just jump into bed with any common ally the way most leftist whores seem inclined to do today when a shady guy in a dark suit whispers sweet nothings in my ear. 

We get so caught up in the media narrative that it was social media influence that we forget about the hacking. 

People who think the memes on facebook influenced votes are idiots.  Seriously.  I'm not even going to qualify that statement and allow people any wiggle room.  If you think bumper stickers showing Jesus and Satan arm wrestling flipped a voter from Hillary to Trump you are a crappity smacking raging idiot.

But ... the wikileaks releases.  That's a different breed of cat altogether.  And if the Russians were behind that ....

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Ulysses
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #21 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 7:22pm
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Hmm. I recall something of a deluge of anti-Hillary posts on Facebook in the run up to the election. And my Facebook account was pretty well locked down. I believe the Facebook spam had an effect on voters. As did the Twitter spam, and the talk radio spam, and the Fox News spam. Mostly lies, that's the sad part.

I listened to Jim Acosta on Colbert the other day. He made a penetrating remark about Trump:

"He built his political career on a lie - that Obama was born in Kenya".

What did Dukakis once say? Old Greek proverb - the fish starts to rot at the head...?

Sadly, I think Hillary would have made a great president. But she probably also would have polarized the nation almost as much as Trump has. We need a unifier, a healer, someone to champion the Middle Way.

We need Tao Tze.

  

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Queshank
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #22 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 7:58pm
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Ulysses wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 7:22pm:
Hmm. I recall something of a deluge of anti-Hillary posts on Facebook in the run up to the election. And my Facebook account was pretty well locked down. I believe the Facebook spam had an effect on voters. As did the Twitter spam, and the talk radio spam, and the Fox News spam. Mostly lies, that's the sad part.


So ...you're saying you were gonna vote Trump but the crushing wave of Facebook spam and the unrelenting anti Trump narratives of the media convinced you to vote Hillary?

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #23 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 8:16pm
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stu_gatze wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 11:58am:
Anybody who really believes the Russians helped swing the election to Trump is crazy Smiley, if they really believe that crap!  Grin

Hillary could not get the democrat party nomination away from the big-eared embellished fraud named, Barry Soetoro (legal name)/ Barack Obama (aka)

If Hillary was all that well LOVED, .. she SHOULD have DEFEATED OBAMA in 2008 for the democrat party nomination and then beat Trump, but, Hillary LOST on BOTH counts.  Smiley Smiley

In truth, .. Hillary was NEVER all that well loved because, she lies endlessly and is corrupt and MOST Americans KNOW it.   Grin   Cool

Excellent response and spot on
  

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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #24 - Aug 9th, 2018 at 10:53pm
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Wow. If nothing else this question by j underscores the ina I Lory of tbe keftvtobartculate a simple answer to a basic question.
  
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Ulysses
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #25 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 2:52am
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Queshank wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 7:58pm:
So ...you're saying you were gonna vote Trump but the crushing wave of Facebook spam and the unrelenting anti Trump narratives of the media convinced you to vote Hillary?

Queshank


Nope.

I didn't see much if any anti-Trump Facebook spam, nor anti-Trump narratives in the "media".

I did notice a lot of anti-Hillary junk on Facebook, and on various other social web sites. It was weird. And posters here like Walkstall still have fake anti-Hillary junk.

At least my anti-Trump signature is a real video of him mocking a disabled reporter. Walks' crap is clearly altered fiction.

  

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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #26 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 3:47am
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Jasmine wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 2:48am:
True or False: If Russia had not interfered in the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton would have beaten Donald Trump.

Here are the libbies I would like to see respond:

[   ] Greg
[   ] Vyper
[   ] Fiddler
[   ] Wadsworth
[ T ] Bowhunter
[   ] BillyP
[ F ] MojoJojo
[   ] Queshank
[   ] Philip
[   ] BamaBeau
[   ] Luther

Everyone else is free to chime in, of course.  Smiley


I did not make the list? I'm disappointed.

Russia invests a lot of resources in propaganda.  This propaganda is only valuable in so far as it changes outcomes.  It's hard to believe that they would continue to do it if they do not get any return. The election was also so close that a small change in people's voting behavior could have flipped the results. In other words, it is the type of election where Russia stands to benefit from its propaganda. Given that Russia believes their propaganda is worthwhile, it probably had enough of an effect to win Trump the election.

With that being said, America meddles in other countries affairs. Many times, this meddling is to the detriment of democratic values. It's only fair that the same thing happened in reverse.

  
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Jasmine
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #27 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 4:21am
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Possibly Logical wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 3:47am:
I did not make the list? I'm disappointed.

Russia invests a lot of resources in propaganda.  This propaganda is only valuable in so far as it changes outcomes.  It's hard to believe that they would continue to do it if they do not get any return. The election was also so close that a small change in people's voting behavior could have flipped the results. In other words, it is the type of election where Russia stands to benefit from its propaganda. Given that Russia believes their propaganda is worthwhile, it probably had enough of an effect to win Trump the election.

With that being said, America meddles in other countries affairs. Many times, this meddling is to the detriment of democratic values. It's only fair that the same thing happened in reverse.


So your answer is True?

I don’t consider you to be a liberal.
  


President Trump turned you into a snowflake? Woman up!
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #28 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 5:33am
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Jasmine wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 4:21am:
So your answer is True?


Yes. Of course, it is possible that I am wrong.


Quote:
I don’t consider you to be a liberal.


That's strange. I'm certainly more liberal than Luther and Queshank. Where do you put me?

  
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Re: Question for liberals: the 2016 election
Reply #29 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 5:38am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Aug 9th, 2018 at 9:53am:
There has been speculation that Mueller is finding and securing evidence that Trump's minions coordinated with Russian social-media-hackers to target specific voting districts in specific battleground states.  Given the timing, given the extreme closeness of the race, and given the surgical precision of the russian efforts, it seems likely that the Russians threw the election to Hils.

Having said that, I will add that Hillary should have done much better.  She saw what Trump did to all the other republican candidates.  She had access to the best electioneering data and techniques.  She could have launched her own surgical media-hacking campaigns.  She could have been open and transparent about the email server.  And most importantly, she could have openly adopted 2-3 of the biggest planks of Bernie's platform in order to excite the bernie bros.

And it's arguable that Comey's media shenanigans knocked a sizable block of voters out from under her at exactly the worst time.


IOW, hil's could have stressed more and more that she is a big part of the swamp.  Yeah, that would have worked with we deplorable 'minions' who voted for Candidate Trump.  Grin  Grin
  
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