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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Today, In Catholic Theology (Read 1,232 times)
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #10 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 12:47pm
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 5:00pm:
I believe EF is Catholic so he would be best to answer your remarks.


No, EF isn't a Catholic.  He is a mainline Protestant who once embraced the term "evangelical" until Der Fuhrer came along and so many alleged "evangelicals" began to support him so "religiously." 

Theologically, EF is Calvinistic.  Not hyper-Calvinistic, but Calvinistic in the same sense that Charles Spurgeon and James Pettigru Boyce were Calvinistic.
  

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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #11 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 1:12pm
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 21st, 2018 at 9:07pm:
Actually, how can one expect Biblical morality when one is not rooted in scripture?


Ask St. Paul, who explicitly says that Bible knowledge is not necessary for morality.  See Romans 1-3.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #12 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 1:15pm
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EF wrote on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 12:47pm:
No, EF isn't a Catholic.  He is a mainline Protestant who once embraced the term "evangelical" until Der Fuhrer came along and so many alleged "evangelicals" began to support him so "religiously."


Since you never mentioned the Church, I didn't suspect you were Catholic. 

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Theologically, EF is Calvinistic.  Not hyper-Calvinistic, but Calvinistic in the same sense that Charles Spurgeon and James Pettigru Boyce were Calvinistic


Is that something like, "God gives us free will to do most everything but salvation is His choice alone"?
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #13 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 1:32pm
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Ask St. Paul, who explicitly says that Bible knowledge is not necessary for morality.  See Romans 1-3.

3 chapters and you can't find a specific verse to support your point?  Rom 3:20 is a summary.
« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2018 at 1:52pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #14 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 1:33pm
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Politics has nothing to do with God's will.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #15 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 2:09pm
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Running Deer wrote on Aug 16th, 2018 at 4:58pm:
God does not listen to the prayers of children begging not to be raped, but He does listen to the prayers of their rapists and enablers when they ask for Him to be present in a cracker.

This is essentially what the "my faith is strong, but we need to fire and jail all the priests" Catholics are saying.  I simply do not understand how someone could think that the god of the Catholics was worthy of worship.


Ok, the situation is not that hard to understand.

Look how the Jewish religion was taken over by the Pharisees and money-changers were in the temple.

Well, that is what has happened with the Catholic Church since Vatican II; that is the wrong people have managed to rise to positions of authority.  I should mention that one interpretation of the Revelation verse And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth is that a third of the clergy would become corrupted...it seems in the Catholic Church (and in many liberal Protestant churches) this third of the clergy is not only corrupted but has also managed to gain control.

The bitter fruit of Vatican II is continuing to ripen.




  


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To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #16 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 4:52pm
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 1:32pm:
3 chapters and you can't find a specific verse to support your point?


You should read the entire thing, because St. Paul is making an extended argument.  The church is emerging from the union of Jews and Gentiles, with very different ideas on what rites, religious beliefs, duties, moral rules, and so on should be binding on Christians.

St. Paul calls out the Jews for feeling superior for having the Torah, the "oracle of God".  (The Torah is what St. Paul means by the word "law".)  St. Paul says that the Jews have no particular reason to feel superior simply because they are Jewish because:

[I]t is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified.  When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves.  They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.  Romans 2:13-16 (NRSV).

St. Paul admits that having the Scriptures is an advantage (see Romans 3:1-2) but explicitly denies that one must know the Scriptures in order to be moral.  Maybe you should take up your argument with him.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #17 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 5:37pm
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The first 3 of your paragraphs is correct but the last part of your remarks are not what Romans 3 is saying.  He is talking about the law and he summarizes with these remarks.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.

What Paul is saying is simple, no one is justified in God's sight as the law REVEALS sin.

He states that the purpose of God's law was to reveal to mankind we are ALL sinners.  Earlier he states "All have sinned, none are righteous no not one..."  The NIV says New International Version
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 21But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. 22 And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,…

This is what Paul is stating, that the law shows ALL OF US that no one can be righteous in God's eyes because his law reveals sin.  How?  Have you EVER lied, stolen, committed adultery, have hate in your heart, or any of the other 10 commandments?  The Bible says if you break one you have broken them all and we are then deserving of his judgement.  Yet Paul goes on to state that by his son he can grant us grace and mercy because Jesus paid the debt we own for breaking his law. 
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #18 - Aug 22nd, 2018 at 6:42pm
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Frank1 wrote on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 2:09pm:
Ok, the situation is not that hard to understand.


Sure it is.  The Catholic Church claims to be the One True Holy & Apostolic Church, the only means to access the salvation of God, founded by God's only begotten son on the Rock of St. Peter.  These atrocities were committed under the authority and mystique that all these claims entail.

So, if the God of the Catholics is real, where is He?  Surely, God must care that the priests under His name in the church founded by His Son are using the authority and awe of the Church to rape children and hide it, right?  Surely he cares about the children being raped and wouldn't lend His presence to the Church's rituals and hear the prayers of the rapists, right?

The God of the Catholics must care more about raped children than crackers, right?  And if He doesn't, why exactly is He worthy of worship?

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Well, that is what has happened with the Catholic Church since Vatican II


The recently-publicized abuses started in the late 1940s.  The Second Vatican Council ended in 1965.  Swing and a miss.  (For Limey: clean bowled.)
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Today, In Catholic Theology
Reply #19 - Aug 23rd, 2018 at 10:22am
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Frank1 wrote on Aug 22nd, 2018 at 2:09pm:
Ok, the situation is not that hard to understand.

Look how the Jewish religion was taken over by the Pharisees and money-changers were in the temple.

Well, that is what has happened with the Catholic Church since Vatican II; that is the wrong people have managed to rise to positions of authority.  I should mention that one interpretation of the Revelation verse And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth is that a third of the clergy would become corrupted...it seems in the Catholic Church (and in many liberal Protestant churches) this third of the clergy is not only corrupted but has also managed to gain control.

The bitter fruit of Vatican II is continuing to ripen.






As another poster later already posited, Vatican II didn't start any decline in Catholic "leadership."  One has only to read about the history of the Roman Catholic church to know that there have been corrupt and venal popes and priests aplenty since at least 500 AD or thereabouts. 

But that does not mean that every pope and priest was of that same sort.  People are people, and putting on a pointy hat and swinging a little thing of incense does not change one's moral character.  Plenty of those guys got into it for personal reasons wholly unrelated to serving God then and now, and plenty rose to leadership positions.  And it's not just confined to the Catholic Church, either.  Not a majority by any means, but a more than "just a little" minority.
  

non sumus stulti
but
accidit stercore
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