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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter. (Read 286 times)
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Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Sep 6th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

What happened to Isaiah 53, you might be wondering? That is exactly what this article is about.

In the Bible, in the book of Isaiah, chapter 53 the prophet prophesies about the Messiah that he would be rejected by his people suffer and die in agony and that God would see his suffering and death as an atonement for the sins of humanity. Isaiah lived and prophesied about 700 BCE. According to his prophecy in chapter 53 the leaders of Israel would recognize they had made a mistake at the end of days when they rejected the Messiah, so Isaiah put the prophecy in past tense and because he saw himself as part of the people of Israel he used third person plural (we).
At the end of chapter 52 Isaiah writes an introduction to chapter 53:

“Behold, my servant shall prosper…”

The term “servant” is supposed to connect back to sections earlier in the book that speak of “the Servant of the Lord” (for example, in chapters 42, 49 and 50, where the Messiah is described as a servant that suffers).

“He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted.”

This is to emphasize the eminence of the Messiah who would in fact rise from the dead, and ascend to the heavens and sit next to the Father.  His actions would give him a higher status that every human king or ruler.

“Just as many were appalled at You—His appearance was disfigured more than any man, His form more than the sons of men.”

Before the Messiah is exalted he would suffer and be humiliated. His body would be abused and tortured so badly that he would be completely disfigured and unrecognizable.

“So He will sprinkle many nations. Kings will shut their mouths because of Him, for what had not been told them they will see, and what they had not heard they will perceive.”

Despite the horrific suffering the day would come when even kings would come to look to him with reverence.
And now, let’s dive into chapter 53 itself…

https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-based-teaching-from-israel/inescapable-truth-...
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #1 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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Isaiah repeatedly talks about who the servant is:

"But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend..."  Isa. 41:8.

"For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I surname you, though you do not know me."  Isa. 45:4.

"And he said to me, 'You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.'"  Isa. 49:3.

Interpreting Isaiah 53's servant as Jesus, when Isaiah has been telling you for half the book that the servant is the nation of Israel itself, is ridiculous.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #2 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 6:10pm
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You are in another completely different chapter.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4
Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.

6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.

7
He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8
By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #3 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 6:11pm
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He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10
Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #4 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 8:29pm
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Those quotes don't, at all, address my point that Isaiah repeatedly says the servant is the nation of Israel.  But what else is new?
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #5 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 8:32pm
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Running Deer wrote on Sep 7th, 2018 at 8:29pm:
Those quotes don't, at all, address my point that Isaiah repeatedly says the servant is the nation of Israel.  But what else is new?

He spoke in SINGULAR "He", not plural.  The descriptions match exactly as to how Christ was Crucified.  Jesus himself stated he is "I AM" when asked who he was, then the Jews attempted to stone him.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #6 - Sep 8th, 2018 at 12:15pm
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Running Deer wrote on Sep 7th, 2018 at 8:29pm:
Those quotes don't, at all, address my point that Isaiah repeatedly says the servant is the nation of Israel.  But what else is new?


There are many prophecies about the Messiah in Isaiah alone. Chapter 53 is just one chapter among 66 chapters of Isaiah total which speak about the coming of the Messiah. Many passage about the Messiah in Isaiah. Chapter 60:1-10 deal with all Messianic history after Christ resurrection and ascension into heaven. You would be amazed how much prophecy there is total throughout the Old Testament that is about Christ. I'm surprised there are any unbelieving Jews left in the world there are that many prophecies about Christ. But in the early 2nd century, The Sanhedrin (then also known as the Academy), ceased the teachings about the Messiah and reinterpreted all passages about the Messiah in nonsensical ways that mean nothing that makes sense. They Jewish leaders did this because so many Jews were converting to Christianity and so they changed the prophecies to prevent further mass conversions of Jews.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #7 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 6:43pm
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Seawolf wrote on Sep 7th, 2018 at 8:32pm:
He spoke in SINGULAR "He", not plural.


Of course the pronouns were singular.  The Suffering Servant is presented as singular.  And Isaiah clearly told us who the servant is: the nation of Israel.

Quote:
The descriptions match exactly as to how Christ was Crucified.


"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth..."  Isaiah 53:7.

"Pilate asked him, 'Are you the King of the Jews?' He answered him, 'You say so.'"  Mark 15:2.

Oops, looks like Jesus opened his mouth.

"They made his grave with the wicked, and his tomb with the rich..."  Isaiah 53:9.

There's no mention in the New Testament that Jesus made his grave with the wicked.  Being crucified between two criminals isn't it.

As is typical for Christians trying to make the Old Testament about Jesus, you have to ignore what the Old Testament actually says and read things into it that aren't there.  Pretending to respect Isaiah, you ignore what the text actually says.

Isaiah told you, repeatedly, that the Servant was the nation of Israel.  Since the servant is Israel, the suffering and sacrifice of the servant is also about the suffering of the nation of Israel.

So here's a question for you: how do you square your interpretation of Isaiah 53 with Isaiah's repeated statements that the servant was the nation of Israel?
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #8 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 10:14pm
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[quote author=53746F6F686F665E45646473010 link=1536276642/7#7 date=1536619432]

Of course the pronouns were singular.  The Suffering Servant is presented as singular.  And Isaiah clearly told us who the servant is: the nation of Israel.


"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth..."  Isaiah 53:7.

Matthew 26:63
But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, "I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God."

Matthew 27:12
And when He was accused by the chief priests and elders, He gave no answer.

Mark 14:61
But Jesus remained silent and made no reply. Again the high priest questioned Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"

Mark 15:5
But to Pilate's amazement, Jesus made no further reply.

Luke 23:9
Herod questioned Jesus at great length, but He gave no answer.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #9 - Sep 10th, 2018 at 10:21pm
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"They made his grave with the wicked, and his tomb with the rich..."  Isaiah 53:9.

In Isaiah 53:9, the prophet Isaiah wrote about a sinless servant (the Messiah) being put to death with the wicked and buried with the rich. This was among the many details that Isaiah prophesied about in regards to the Messiah. About 700 years after Isaiah recorded this prophecy, Jesus was put to death along with two criminals and was buried in a tomb owned by a wealthy man, Joseph of Arimathea, as explained in Matthew 27:57-61, Mark 15:42-47, Luke 23:50:56 and John 19:38-42. Jesus was resurrected three days later.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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