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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereReligion Forum › Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter. (Read 288 times)
Seawolf
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #20 - Sep 11th, 2018 at 4:27pm
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A lengthy read but worth the time if you have it.

http://www.libertynewsforum.com/cgi-bin/politics/YaBB.pl?num=1536321672
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #21 - Sep 11th, 2018 at 4:32pm
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This is not a new or particularly revelatory point but it is worth remembering. Not necessarily because either account disproves the other, but rather because by merging the two we miss some of what the original authors were trying to get at.

Matthew's emphasis on Jesus' ancestry reflects his desire to show Jesus as the fulfillment of Israel's story. He highlights Jesus as the new David with his birthplace in Bethlehem and his links as a direct descendent. Joseph hears from angels through Old Testament prophecies that are shown to be fulfilled in Jesus. Indeed the whole account is littered with references to the Old Testament, again highlighting Jesus' Jewish roots.

Finally, the Magi's role shows the importance of Jesus and his prominence as 'King of the Jews'.

By contrast Luke's main focus is on showing how Jesus is different from John the Baptist. The author goes to great pains to explain John's identity as one 'to make ready a people prepared for the Lord' and a 'prophet of the Most High'. This is pointedly contrasted to Jesus who 'will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High'. The shepherds are told a 'Saviour has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord'. If readers are still in any doubt of Jesus' identity, Luke finishes his nativity account with the visit to Simeon who described Jesus as God's 'salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of all nations'.

By blurring these two accounts we miss what the authors wanted to highlight originally. We are blinded to the subtleties and focuses of their particular stories.

The effort to make sense of the two separate accounts has led to their difference being diluted. We would do better to be comfortable with the contrasts, even if they are difficult to reconcile with each other.

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/why-do-matthew-and-luke-have-different-na...
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #22 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 8:19am
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Fiddler wrote on Sep 11th, 2018 at 10:32am:
You cannot prophesize an event within your control and then fulfill the event... There are no prophecies in the bible..

“And Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way; and his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. But he answered and said unto them, ‘You see all of these things, do you not? Truly I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down’” (Matthew 24:1-2).

So how then do you explain the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.?

The Romans invaded Jerusalem in August of A.D. 70, after a five-month siege. A full account of the bloody conflict is found in Josephus (Wars V, VI). The temple was destroyed on the 10th day of the 5th month, according to Jewish tradition — ironically, the same day of the year upon which Nebuchadnezzar had burned down the first temple, some 656 years earlier!

Hmm, are you going to state he made an agreement with the Romans who crucified him to destroy the temple?   Wink
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #23 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:41pm
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Seawolf wrote on Sep 11th, 2018 at 4:25pm:
It's very easy to make an remark, if you think it is a lie then by all means present your facts to support your claim.


Why?  You won't care, won't evaluate the arguments, and won't respond coherently to them.  Why ask for facts when you won't bother with them or think hard?
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #24 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 9:23pm
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Running Deer wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:41pm:
Why?  You won't care, won't evaluate the arguments, and won't respond coherently to them.  Why ask for facts when you won't bother with them or think hard?

The religious can't do that. It destroys their faith.
  

Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #25 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 10:02pm
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Running Deer wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:41pm:
Why?  You won't care, won't evaluate the arguments, and won't respond coherently to them.  Why ask for facts when you won't bother with them or think hard?

That was a nice dodge RD.  What have I not responded to you coherently.  It's easy to castigate people when you lack evidence to support your remarks.  Be specific.  Not think hard or do you mean I refuse to conform to YOUR standards?  I have answered your questions and cited multiple sources and yet you are dodging.  Ok.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #26 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 10:06pm
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Running Deer wrote on Sep 11th, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Right.  And when the writers of the Gospels wanted to embellish Jesus's credentials - i.e., lie - they knew the Jewish Bible well enough to invent prophecy-fulfilling stories.

To wit, Jesus was from Nazareth in the north of Judea.  Trying to bolster his messianic credentials, they went back to the Jewish Bible and found something that looked like a prophecy that the Messiah would come from Bethlehem.

Unfortunately, the Bethlehem stories told by Sts. Matthew and Luke are completely different and set in different decades.  Worse yet, reading the context of the Bethlehem prophecy in Micah 5, the Messiah was supposed to do something about Assyria, but the Assyrian Empire had already been dead for hundreds of years when Jesus was born.

See, you made this remark and you provided me no source, but I am the issue, not you!?  Do me a favor and please cite to me where in their claim they state different decades.  Start with scripture because I see no where that supports your claim.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Seawolf
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #27 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 10:10pm
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Running Deer wrote on Sep 11th, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Right.  And when the writers of the Gospels wanted to embellish Jesus's credentials - i.e., lie - they knew the Jewish Bible well enough to invent prophecy-fulfilling stories.

To wit, Jesus was from Nazareth in the north of Judea.  Trying to bolster his messianic credentials, they went back to the Jewish Bible and found something that looked like a prophecy that the Messiah would come from Bethlehem.

Unfortunately, the Bethlehem stories told by Sts. Matthew and Luke are completely different and set in different decades.  Worse yet, reading the context of the Bethlehem prophecy in Micah 5, the Messiah was supposed to do something about Assyria, but the Assyrian Empire had already been dead for hundreds of years when Jesus was born.

Another claim lacking any evidence they lied.  So this is an unsupported remark I am suppose to simply roll over and accept as a statement of fact!?  Again, care to cite your sources and lay out your claim?  I have put far more effort in addressing your claims then you have put in supporting your claims.  I think you are not the one responding coherently.  Try putting some effort in what you are claiming.  Anyone can throw out garbage with no facts and then act as if they single handedly proved their claim.  I would like to see your sources so I can research to determine myself if you have a credible source.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #28 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 10:12pm
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JohnnyBgood wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 9:23pm:
The religious can't do that. It destroys their faith.

Where have you been on this discussion?
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Isaiah 53 The Forbiden Chapter.
Reply #29 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 6:42pm
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Seawolf wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
See, you made this remark and you provided me no source, but I am the issue


You are the issue.  You ask for evidence but never read or evaluate it.  Oftentimes, you say something blatantly foolish or ignorant, are corrected on it, then continue to repeat the foolishness.  For example, for years you have been repeatedly corrected on what evolutionary theory actually is, yet repeat the same foolish dreck in thread after thread after thread.

So I ask again, if you don't actually care about evidence, why ask for it?
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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