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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left (Read 985 times)
Seawolf
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #30 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 3:40pm
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Fiddler wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 1:14pm:
Fizzle corrected nothing .. 

Hagar represents the old covenant and as such Abraham's first born Ishmael is as "Abrahamic" as new covenant Isaiah..

This knee jerk "they aren't one of us" plays out not only with Christians denying their connection to Islam but can be seen in your "Westboro Baptist aren't Christians" nonsense..




And here is where ignorance comes in and I am going to ask you to validate your remarks regarding Westboro as to what commandment.  Specifically what are they honoring that proves to you they represent the teachings of Jesus.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #31 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 3:43pm
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Limey. wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 12:42pm:
Actually I really enjoy these conversations and as you know I'm more than a little conflicted.

I take a certain position on LNF religion board which may come across as hostile - I'll apologise for that right now. I reserve the right to be robust, but I will tone down a bit (maybe not with Fez and his frankly - or should that be Stuly Smiley ) bigoted nonsense about Muslims.


You do yourself no favours though when you talk about your own knowledge of the Bible as being in some other ethereal sphere.

Let's go back to the Abraham - Isaac discussion. Those words in the Bible are there for all to read. The moral questions are real and relevant right now.

My knowledge is not hearsay or using the Bible only to advance my agenda.  I study it, look at it's history and read nearly every day.  So no, I am by no means a casual reader.  I take my studies seriously.  I am not a Theologian nor do I want to be.  So the question that one asks is where do you derive your opinion or what led me to my conclusion rather then someone who often dismisses a remark simply because they do not like the outcome.  Sorry, been a bit busy with my son in South Carolina.  They are trying to weather out the hurricane.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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FEZZILLA
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #32 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:09pm
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Limey. wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 3:21pm:
Do you live now, or have you ever lived, in a city that is 20% Muslim?

Are you now, or have you ever been, employed in an undertaking where 15% of your colleagues are Muslim?

Have you recently frequented businesses owned and staffed by Muslims?

Have you ever tended gunshot wounds in a Muslim, inflicted by a Christian, or seen a Muslim city under siege by Christians who intended to kill, deport, rob and rape the inhabitants?


I suggest your assumptions about my knowledge of Islam are based on your own stupidity, bigotry, paranoia and ignorance.


I suppose if you are a terrorist you have plenty to complain about with U.S. soldiers beating the hell out of the caliphate. So sure, you have probably seen your jihadist comrades injured in war against Americans. But only a muslim would say all Americans are Christian.

Do you agree with the muslim agenda to exterminate all non-muslims until there are no non-muslims left on earth?
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #33 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:11pm
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Limey. wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 4:57am:
And yet, when we get in to a genuine conversation at the sharp end of your belief you often struggle.

I recall our discussion about Abraham and Isaac. You dodged and dodged, using interpretations of what the Bible says rather than the actual words in the Bible.

Similarly on the discussions we have about evolution - you place a higher value on the words in Scripture than on the evidence of your own eyes or the verified, tested evidence of scientists. I have my opinions about the psychology at work in this, but aside from that it makes me despair that someone intelligent can make a conscious choice to live in a fantasy world.

On top of that despair is irritation that you act as you do, claiming that you have some superior knowledge denied to those of us with doubt in our minds about religion. Actually, no, not religion, just your own version.

On this thread, Fezz commits the same offence against sense; he condemns Islam but can't accept that his own religion has exactly the same status - and I mean exactly the same.


Christianity is not Islam nor are they related religions.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #34 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:24pm
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Limey. Here is a verse where muslims are instructed to fight unbelievers until only Islam remains. This is the mass extermination of over 5-billion non-muslims in the world today.

Noble Qur'an 2:193, Madinah Period

Quote:

"And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone).* But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

*footnote: "(V.2:193)
(A) Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Messenger said, "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people till they testify that La illallah wa Anna Muhammmad-ur-Rasul Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah), and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) and give Zakat, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives, and properties from me except for Islamic laws, and their reckoning (accounts) will be with (done by) Allah." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 1, Hadith No.24).


Tafsir is the exegesis of the Qur'an, the interpretations of the meanings. Here is some classical tafsir which interprets the verse for you.

Tafsir Al-Qurtubi,

Quote:

"Fight them until there is no more fitna and the deen belongs to Allah alone.
This is a command to fight every idolater in every place according to those who say that it abrogates the previous ayats. According to those who say that it does not abrogate other ayats, it means: fight those about whom Allah says, "if they fight you". The former is the more likely meaning. It is an unqualified command to fight without any precondition of hostilities being initiated by the unbelievers. The evidence for that is in the words of Allah, "and the din belongs to Allah alone." The Prophet said, " I was commanded to fight people until they say, 'There is no god but Allah.' The ayat and hadith both indicate that the reason for fighting is disbelief because Allah says, "until there is no more fitna," meaning disbelief in this case. So the goal is to abolish disbelief and that is clear.
Ibn 'Abbas, Qatada, ar-Rabi', as-Suddi and others said that fitna here means shirk and the subsequent injury to the believers caused by it. The root of fitna is testing and trial, derived from the term for testing silver when it is put in the fire to separate the impurities from the pure metal.

If they cease, there should be no enmity towards any but wrongdoers.
If they stop and become Muslim or submit by paying jizya in the case of the people of the Book. Otherwise they should be fought and they are wrongdoers and only transgress against themselves. What is done to the wrongdoers is called enmity since it is the repayment of enmity. Wrongdoing and injustice involve enmity and repayment of enmity is also called enmity. The wrongdoers are either those who initiate fighting or those who remain entrenched in disbelief and fitna."


Tafsir Al-Jalalayn (Aisha Bewley translation):

Quote:
"Fight them until there is no more fitna (shirk) in existence and the din (worship) belongs to Allah alone and none but Him is worshipped. If they cease committing shirk there should be no enmity by killing or in any other way towards any but wrongdoers. If someone is not a wrongdoer, there must be no aggression against him."


Tafsir Ibn Kathir,

Quote:
"{Fitnah} meaning, disbelief and worshipping of others with Allah. {and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone).} It refers to the fact that the Religion of Allah (Islam) must be prevalent over other religions. {But if they cease,} meaning, you are stop fighting them the moment they stop fighting the believers, and thereto Islam they turned; for whoever fights them after that, he is then a transgressor; and that there should be no transgression except against the polytheists and wrongdoers. Narrated Nafi' that Ibn 'Umar said that two men there came to him during the dispute of Ibn Az-Zubayr and said: "People are fighting each others. What keeps you from taking part in the fighting despite your being Ibn 'Umar and the Companion of the Prophet (PBUH)?" He said: "What keeps me as such is that Allah prohibited the killing of a Muslim." They said: "Has not Allah said: {And fight them until there is no more Fitnah}?" Ibn 'Umar said: "We fought until there were no more Fitnah and all the religion (worship) was for Allah and you want to fight till the Fitnah befalls and not to let the religion be for Allah."


Muslims don't fight as individuals. They fight for Islam and their jihad is very patiently fought. It may take many generations to conquer a nation but as of right now the muslims are winning the war on terror as they are accepted by liberals who help them fight for Islamic dominance.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Limey.
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #35 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 12:53pm
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FEZZILLA wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:24pm:
Limey. Here is a verse where muslims are instructed to fight unbelievers until only Islam remains. This is the mass extermination of over 5-billion non-muslims in the world today.


Yeah, yeah, I got it when you posted this:

Quote:
Muslims don't fight as individuals. They fight for Islam and their jihad is very patiently fought. It may take many generations to conquer a nation but as of right now the muslims are winning the war on terror as they are accepted by liberals who help them fight for Islamic dominance.

Islamic emigration must be illegalized as emigration for jihad is one of the main tenets of the Islamic faith. All these muslims emigrating here are coming here to divide us before they kill us. The goal of Islam is to wipe out over 5-billion non-muslims and destroying all life on the planet, including the planet itself, is no deviation from the Islamic faith! Islam is a totalitarian death cult obsessed with death and dying. They have a warped view on martyrdom in which they believe that murdering non-believers and being killed in the process of murder somehow makes them martyrs. Islam is evil...deeply evil


Now, you didn't answer my question about your up-close and personal actual first hand, with your own eyes, knowledge of Muslims.

I'm not pretending to have met every one, but I have a big hunch that I'm ahead of you here.

If a Muslim with an online presence, in, say, Jeddah, who'd never met a Christian, was whining about Christians and their wicked ways as per the Bible what would you say?

I mean, there are lots and lots of instructions in the Bible that Western civilisation in general, and Christians in particular, ignore.

What about all the stuff in Deuteronomy? How much of that is in any way relevant to modern life or the day to day lives of Jim and Angela Christian, of 3, The High Street, Littletown?

About the same as the verses you quote with the majority - the vast majority - of Muslims.

Fez, I have worked with dozens of these guys, lived on the same street, rented a house from and rented another to Muslims. I've been to their weddings, drank beer with them and investigated fatal accidents alongside them.

Not one of them has even tried to convert me. let alone kill me.

Your panic isn't entirely unfounded. There are crazies out there, lots of them. We were talking about RoE for Western soldiers fighting the Islamist scumbags. You seemed to think (you have this in common with other Right wing posters here) that RoE which restrict our soldiers from basically shooting first and asking afterwards are wrong, because all Muslims are the enemy.

They aren't. But they would be, and quite justifiably, if your genocidal, racist nonsense prevailed.

Think it through. Would Jesus call down an artillery strike and kill half a village because he thought there might be a sniper in one of the upstairs apartments?

No. He'd go in on foot with rifles, and kill the sniper, even if it meant taking casualties. |Then the villagers would see Him to be just, fair and caring for their safety even at risk to His own self.

He might even use a bayonet, as that clever Colonel Vann suggested.


You'd use  tanks.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #36 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 7:23pm
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In war ROE that hinder a soldiers ability to prosecute and defend himself is morally wrong.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #37 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 9:55pm
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Seawolf wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 7:23pm:
In war ROE that hinder a soldiers ability to prosecute and defend himself is morally wrong.



Ok so he can kill anything that moves, right?
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #38 - Sep 15th, 2018 at 9:59pm
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https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jsp+385+rules+of+engagement&safe=strict&client...

British Army ROE as issued to me during the Irish terror campaign in U.K.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Islam: The New Pet-Religion of the Left
Reply #39 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 2:10pm
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Limey. wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 9:55pm:
Ok so he can kill anything that moves, right?

Civilians who are trying to turn this into a mother may I war.  We should never have to ask lawyers permission every step of the way.  War IS about killing and destroying.  You NEED to trust that good moral men are leading our troops.  Time and surprise are valuable assets to a military.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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