Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 13 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die' (Read 1,397 times)
20TRUMP20
LNF Senior Staffer1
LNF Bunker
**
Offline

Saxon dog.

Posts: 196
Location: Teutoburg Forest
Joined: Sep 18th, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #80 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 7:51am
Print Post  
Phillip 2.0 wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 5:53am:
Did it ever dawn on you that those people are morons?


I wonder how many Puerto Ricans don't think of themselves as Americans and don't want to be thought of as Americans. I wonder how many of them just want to be Puerto Ricans.
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 9,723
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #81 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:21am
Print Post  
Phillip 2.0 wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 5:58am:
If someone gets cholera directly due to the hurricane and dies a month later from it, what should they be counted as?  Roll Eyes


The one thing liberals struggle with is logic and following a chain of logic

You can’t seem to comprehend the discussion.

You and others are comparing deaths from all other storms to deaths in Puerto Rico.

All other storm deaths have always been reported the same way, same methodology. Direct deaths during the storm. Tree falling on them, drowning, electrocution etc. not as an indirect result of tbe storm, four months post storm. Get it?

No
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Greg55_99
LNF Bunker
**
Online

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 31,667
Joined: Jun 9th, 2006
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #82 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:36am
Print Post  
petep wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:21am:
The one thing liberals struggle with is logic and following a chain of logic

You can’t seem to comprehend the discussion.

You and others are comparing deaths from all other storms to deaths in Puerto Rico.

All other storm deaths have always been reported the same way, same methodology. Direct deaths during the storm. Tree falling on them, drowning, electrocution etc. not as an indirect result of tbe storm, four months post storm. Get it?

No


I'll be blunt.  That is false.

Quote:
A directly related death was defined as a death caused by the physical forces of a hurricane, whereas an indirectly related death was one caused by unsafe or unhealthy conditions that existed during the evacuation phase, occurrence of the hurricane, or post-hurricane/cleanup phase (3). A case was classified as possibly related to the hurricane if 1) the death occurred in the hurricane-affected area during August 23--October 23, 2005, 2) the cause or manner of death was undetermined or pending, and 3) reviewers agreed that a possible relation between the death and the hurricane might exist. Natural causes of death were considered storm-related if physical or mental stress before, during, or after the storm resulted in exacerbation of preexisting medical conditions and contributed to death.

--------------------------

The majority of Hurricane Katrina--related deaths occurred in Louisiana and Mississippi (8). The deaths described in this report are not representative of Katrina-related deaths. Furthermore, the findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, a universally accepted standard definition of a hurricane-related death has not been established. The classification of a direct, indirect, or possible hurricane-related death is based on the circumstances of death, availability of information, and individual judgment, which might lead to over- or underreporting. Second, entry of certain records and interviews with MEs occurred 5 weeks after landfall, increasing the likelihood of recall bias regarding the circumstances of deaths. Finally, background information in some of the medical records was incomplete or insufficient, which presented difficulties in determining the circumstances of those deaths. In such cases, the logbook review and interview of the ME provided additional information.


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5509a5.htm

Greg
  

"You want the TRUTH? You can't handle THE TRUTH!!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 9,723
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #83 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:43am
Print Post  
Ok Greg. Let’s be clear. You are claiming the exact same methodology was used in the Puerto Rico study to estimate hurricane deaths as other storms? Yes or no
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PaleoCon
LNF Senior Staffer6
LNF Bunker
**
Offline

Ne sutor ultra crepidam.
Ubi dubium ibi libertas

Posts: 654
Joined: Sep 18th, 2013
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #84 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:45am
Print Post  
Once again, if this method was the standard across the board and was done properly, I would have no problem with it.

That would mean that every death indirectly attributable to Hurricane Matthew would have been laid at the feet of Obama.

But as it stands now, this "study" is little more than a political dig at Trump by the mindless leftists.

Do liberals really believe in objectivity?
  

At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats. P.J. ORourke
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Greg55_99
LNF Bunker
**
Online

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 31,667
Joined: Jun 9th, 2006
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #85 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:45am
Print Post  
petep wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:43am:
Ok Greg. Let’s be clear. You are claiming the exact same methodology was used in the Puerto Rico study to estimate hurricane deaths as other storms? Yes or no


At least since Katrina.  Are YOU still claiming that deaths from hurricanes are ONLY from the DIRECT effects of the storm?

Greg
  

"You want the TRUTH? You can't handle THE TRUTH!!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
forgotten centrist
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

bring back the middle
class!

Posts: 12,848
Joined: Sep 29th, 2004
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #86 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:48am
Print Post  
Trump himself said that Maria wasn't a "real disaster" like Katrina, where 1500 people died.  Those 1500 weren't killed directly, they were killed after the levies broke, and in the aftermath of the flooding.
  

2017 dream team (junior member)
and now as friendly as Jasmine!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 9,723
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #87 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:55am
Print Post  
Greg55_99 wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:45am:
At least since Katrina.  Are YOU still claiming that deaths from hurricanes are ONLY from the DIRECT effects of the storm?

Greg


Yes. Greg, I’m trying to be patient here. You can google this on your own. Historically only direct deaths were counted. One month after Maria the cdc decided under pressure from Puerto Rico that they would now include direct and indirect deaths. This led to pr commissioning the german report that revised the number drastically upward.

I am not arguing that this method of counting direct plus indirect is not a good measurement of a storms impact. It probably is. But it was not the method used historically.

Read this New York Times article and it explains it clearly. Especially the section “is it a valid method”.

It has been approved as valid but is still different than what has been used historically

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/06/02/us/puerto-rico-death-tol...

That is my point.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 9,723
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #88 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:56am
Print Post  
Not german. George Washington university report.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fiddler
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I love American Pi

Posts: 19,925
Joined: Jan 28th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'
Reply #89 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:56am
Print Post  
petep wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 9:21am:
Get it?




It appears you don't get it. 

If the power goes out today due to a storm and a patient on life support dies tomorrow.. that patient did indeed die as a result of the storm.

  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 13
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Trump falsely claims nearly 3,000 Americans in Puerto Rico 'did not die'

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules