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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal (Read 640 times)
Lomelis
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #10 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 1:54pm
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petep wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 7:15pm:
You are wrong. Over 90 percent is imported and our factories and mills are not operating. They don’t just sit idle. They’ve closed over the years. Personally I’d like to see it move to 50 percent dependence over the next 10 years.




Like I said.  That doesn't mean we are dependent.  If we could not get cheaper sources elsewhere then those mills would fire back up.

Dependent necessarily implies that we can't produce our own steel and aluminum and have to receive foreign supplies.  The reality is that we -choose- to do so.

That's the market at work.
  

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Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #11 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:12pm
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Trump doesn't "deserve praise" for this.

He made a bad deal worse.

The only good thing to come out of this is he insisted they drop the NAFTA moniker.  Which is fantastic.  Because that was some misleading crappity smacking marketing right there.  Fully half the people on these boards think it was "free trade" because it said so!  Right there!  In the title!  You can't miss it!

As a move towards free trade it's a failure.

As a means of setting up for waging more potent economic warfare against China it probably has its uses.

But meanwhile everyone is still pretending free trade is a thing that exists.

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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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petep
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #12 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:36pm
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Lomelis wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 1:54pm:
Like I said.  That doesn't mean we are dependent.  If we could not get cheaper sources elsewhere then those mills would fire back up.

Dependent necessarily implies that we can't produce our own steel and aluminum and have to receive foreign supplies.  The reality is that we -choose- to do so.

That's the market at work.


I feel like I’m Rodney dangerfield in the movie back to school debating business with the college prof

You are arguing textbook theory and I’m in the real world. The mills don’t just sit there idle with thousands of employees sitting around just in case. Mills and supply lines are dismantled, people move away, old buildings fall in disrepair.

The need for steel and aluminum is a daily need by many industries. Over the years you are correct. It was cheaper to get elsewhere. So we shut down production, scrap buildings etc.

But when 90 percent is sourced and it would take years to scale back production, it’s a wise move to slowly scale production and enact trade policies to have less Nat’l dependence on such a critical raw material for so many industries.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m a huge proponent of the free mkt. but one must balance that against dependence on very critical supplies. Sometimes it’s better to pay more, but have more control over your inputs.

Heck, how many years has it taken Kodak to get ektachre film back in production after shutting it down. And that just mfg lines to produce film.

I feel similarly about food production. I’d rather pay more and have a safe stable decentralized food supply vs one single low cost food supplier, offering few varieties.

You are forgetting that “free market” has more than cost or price as a determining variable. Supply chain is another variable in free mkt decision making. I think that gets lost on many people.
  
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #13 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:52pm
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Queshank wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:12pm:
As a move towards free trade it's a failure.

Este

The only thing in this agreement that I've seen so far that could be said be a move towards more liberalised trade was raising the duty threshold.

  
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #14 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:54pm
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petep wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:36pm:
I’m a huge proponent of the free mkt. but one must balance that against dependence on very critical supplies.

US mills produce 70 percent of the steel consumed by US companies, and they're not at capacity (in other words, they could produce more if they had too - say in a national emergency or something along the lines of WW2).
  
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #15 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:35pm
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Demos wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:54pm:
US mills produce 70 percent of the steel consumed by US companies, and they're not at capacity (in other words, they could produce more if they had too - say in a national emergency or something along the lines of WW2).


Could they?

I keep seeing estimates about how much steel the US economy needs that don't take into consideration say ... World War II type production levels.

But that's because they've been focused on how we don't need steel for national defense and discussing possible avenues where you might doesn't help their intent of #Resisting.  You can't find anybody examining it from that angle except Pat Buchanan ffs.

(I'd love a link tho if someone is running numbers.)

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #16 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 8:25pm
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Demos wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:54pm:
US mills produce 70 percent of the steel consumed by US companies, and they're not at capacity (in other words, they could produce more if they had too - say in a national emergency or something along the lines of WW2).



That is not remotely close to the facts and data for steel production and consumption. Please cite a source. This data is well known. Research any site you like. A bit scary you’d be that substantially and significantly far off tbe facts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/key-facts-us-steel-alum...

  
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #17 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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petep wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 8:25pm:
That is not remotely close to the facts and data for steel production and consumption. Please cite a source. This data is well known. Research any site you like. A bit scary you’d be that substantially and significantly far off tbe facts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/key-facts-us-steel-alum...

Your source doesn't even remotely contradict what I stated.

Loads of source information here (including from the steel industry itself, which is where the 70 percent figure comes from):

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-u-s-steel-industry-a-reality-check/
  
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Demos
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #18 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 1:19pm
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Queshank wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 7:35pm:
Could they?

According to them they have capacity which is not being used due to imports.

https://www.steel.org/~/media/Files/AISI/Public%20Policy/2018/232-Letter-2018.pd...

So, the capacity is there. They can make the steel. We just don't really need to them to do that at this time. The only reason they're arguing for protectionist tariffs is to help their bottom line, which wasn't hurting as it was.

In other words, what we're doing with steel tariffs is making the rich richer and playing politics.
  
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Lomelis
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Re: Schumer: Trump 'deserves praise' for work to fix Mexico, Canada trade deal
Reply #19 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 1:37pm
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petep wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:36pm:
I feel like I’m Rodney dangerfield in the movie back to school debating business with the college prof

You are arguing textbook theory and I’m in the real world. The mills don’t just sit there idle with thousands of employees sitting around just in case. Mills and supply lines are dismantled, people move away, old buildings fall in disrepair.


Obviously I'm arguing the real world.  If the American consumer wanted to purchase more domestically produced steel and aluminum we could do so.  The capability to produce more here is there, the only thing lacking is demand.

Supply and demand.

If what you are saying is true then tariffs wouldn't matter because we couldn't produce more.

The fact is that we can and the consumer prefers the imports for a variety of reasons.

You want to force prices up for the imports because -you- prefer domestic.

Quote:
The need for steel and aluminum is a daily need by many industries. Over the years you are correct. It was cheaper to get elsewhere. So we shut down production, scrap buildings etc.

But when 90 percent is sourced and it would take years to scale back production, it’s a wise move to slowly scale production and enact trade policies to have less Nat’l dependence on such a critical raw material for so many industries.


Once again -you- believe it's a wise move.  A lot of people obviously disagree for whatever reason otherwise there would be more demand for the domestic product.

It's all about your preference.  That's it.  You want to force people to pay extra simply because of your own feelings.


Quote:
Don’t get me wrong. I’m a huge proponent of the free mkt.


Obviously not.  You have a huge problem with the free market otherwise you wouldn't be trying to control it.

Quote:
but one must balance that against dependence on very critical supplies. Sometimes it’s better to pay more, but have more control over your inputs.


There is no must.  That's simply your own belief and desire.

Quote:
Heck, how many years has it taken Kodak to get ektachre film back in production after shutting it down. And that just mfg lines to produce film.


People still use film?

Quote:
I feel similarly about food production. I’d rather pay more and have a safe stable decentralized food supply vs one single low cost food supplier, offering few varieties.


I'm sure you would.

A poor person barely making ends meet might not agree.

Quote:
You are forgetting that “free market” has more than cost or price as a determining variable. Supply chain is another variable in free mkt decision making. I think that gets lost on many people.



The costs of the supplies is a fundamental variable to the cost of the end product.

I don't think anyone is getting lost about that.
  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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