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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) High chair for the high court... (Read 691 times)
Freon_Bale
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #10 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:16pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 1:57pm:
If you're honest, is there any way he could have?



With a full investigation, we would have had a better chance of knowing. Who gives Ford justice? You may be right about Kavanaugh, but if you are wrong, you just put a horrible person on the bench.

I am thankful I do not have to live with that on my conscience.
  
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #11 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:21pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:16pm:
With a full investigation, we would have had a better chance of knowing. Who gives Ford justice? You may be right about Kavanaugh, but if you are wrong, you just put a horrible person on the bench.

I am thankful I do not have to live with that on my conscience.

C'mon. How many "assault" allegations from 40 years ago, when the accuser readily admits that there was no injury at all and can't remember the year it occurred or where it took place, and stated that she told nobody about it for decades, are solved?

The number you're looking for is zero.


Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:16pm:
Who gives Ford justice?

Aren't you assuming that a grave offense occurred?

Why? Do you know any of these people?

Or is it just what you want to believe?

Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:16pm:
You may be right about Kavanaugh, but if you are wrong, you just put a horrible person on the bench.

I didn't put anybody anywhere. I hold fast to the idea that assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I believe in the presumption of innocence.

Do you?
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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PaleoCon
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #12 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:28pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 1:54pm:
Not sure where you are coming from on this. To me, you have sacrificed your values, again, to put someone in the government who favors your ideology. Kavanaugh did not convince me was innocent of sexual assault.


What, pray tell, are these values that we have supposedly sacrificed? Not a single credible accusation was leveled at Kavanaugh that could be corroborated. Multiple analyses have cast doubt on Blasey-Ford's narrative and her credibility.

We applied the values of fairness, justice and innocence until proven guilty to the situation.  Applying these values, each leavened by common sense (evidently a trait exclusive to conservatives), we found nothing but leftist lies and smears, which are frequent "values" of liberals.

Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 1:54pm:
I do not believe this is over, and I will invest my time and money to insure this country does not get further derailed off its progressive and liberal track. You don't realize that all you are doing is slowing this process down. To stop it, you would have to make us truly stagnant, and given your love of things that are shiny, I do not see that happening.


And I will invest my time and money to permanently derail the sick, perverted leftist agenda. You might be right that we can't stop the disgusting and vile march to a socialist hell, but some of us are used to fighting for a lost cause. Like the American Revolution (I have quite a few ancestors who fought for the Patriot side), sometimes the good guys manage to win that hopeless fight.
  

At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats. P.J. ORourke
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Freon_Bale
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #13 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:39pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:21pm:
C'mon. How many "assault" allegations from 40 years ago, when the accuser readily admits that there was no injury at all and can't remember the year it occurred or where it took place, and stated that she told nobody about it for decades, are solved?

The number you're looking for is zero.


Aren't you assuming that a grave offense occurred?

Why? Do you know any of these people?

Or is it just what you want to believe?

I didn't put anybody anywhere. I hold fast to the idea that assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I believe in the presumption of innocence.

Do you?


I also believe in the presumption of innocence. I believe Ford is innocent of lying, whereas you are accusing her of being a liar.

I also believe that we are in uncharted territory when it comes to the abuse women have endured, and still endure, in this country. Do we just wipe the slate, and say all past injustices are null and void? Or do we do due diligence, give the victims the benefit of the doubt, and perform an actual serious inquiry into the situation. The supreme court justices need to demonstrate the highest integrity, they need to be our best and brightest, and I will forever have doubts about Kavanaugh.

The question was what had higher value; Getting a conservative on the bench at all costs, or taking a victim's story at face value. If we had thoroughly researched Ford's claim, and still found nothing, I would have been disgusted at her false story. But now, it is just his word against hers, and like a great many of these cases, the white guy won. Boys will be boys, right? I do not consider that equality.
  
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #14 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:43pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
I also believe in the presumption of innocence. I believe Ford is innocent of lying, whereas you are accusing her of being a liar.


This is true of anybody making untrue accusations.

And I am not accusing her of lying.

I am saying her allegations, without evidence, should be ignored. Her evidence free allegations of activity nearly 40 years old should be dismissed without evidence.

As they have been. Because that's what a rational society does with evidence-free allegations. It's a good thing, too.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Freon_Bale
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #15 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:46pm
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PaleoCon wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
What, pray tell, are these values that we have supposedly sacrificed? Not a single credible accusation was leveled at Kavanaugh that could be corroborated. Multiple analyses have cast doubt on Blasey-Ford's narrative and her credibility.

We applied the values of fairness, justice and innocence until proven guilty to the situation.  Applying these values, each leavened by common sense (evidently a trait exclusive to conservatives), we found nothing but leftist lies and smears, which are frequent "values" of liberals.


And I will invest my time and money to permanently derail the sick, perverted leftist agenda. You might be right that we can't stop the disgusting and vile march to a socialist hell, but some of us are used to fighting for a lost cause. Like the American Revolution (I have quite a few ancestors who fought for the Patriot side), sometimes the good guys manage to win that hopeless fight.


I guess only one comment on this. You seem to associate Left as a monolith. I am both progressive and liberal, but I, and pretty much all those who I know, do not want socialism. Not sure why you think we do.

Now, I do believe that some aspects of socialism are positive, as well as some aspects of conservatism, and republicanism. That does not mean I am conservative, or a Republican, only that no pure system seems to solve all problems. I believe we should pick and choose the best of all the systems, and incorporate them (as we already do) in our American system, which does not really fit into any nice neat bucket in terms of title.

One of my biggest complaints about conservatives is their dogma. It is either black, or white. This, or that. The world is a wonderful gray. I accept that, and work with it. Why fight for something that is impossible to achieve? Seems like a waste of time to me.
  
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #16 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:46pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
I also believe in the presumption of innocence. I believe Ford is innocent of lying, whereas you are accusing her of being a liar.

I also believe that we are in uncharted territory when it comes to the abuse women have endured, and still endure, in this country. Do we just wipe the slate, and say all past injustices are null and void? Or do we do due diligence, give the victims the benefit of the doubt, and perform an actual serious inquiry into the situation. The supreme court justices need to demonstrate the highest integrity, they need to be our best and brightest, and I will forever have doubts about Kavanaugh.

The question was what had higher value; Getting a conservative on the bench at all costs, or taking a victim's story at face value. If we had thoroughly researched Ford's claim, and still found nothing, I would have been disgusted at her false story. But now, it is just his word against hers, and like a great many of these cases, the white guy won. Boys will be boys, right? I do not consider that equality.


How do you "thoroughly" investigate a supposed decades old crime with no witnesses, no dates, no trauma, no reports, no evidence whatsoever?


  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #17 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:49pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
If we had thoroughly researched Ford's claim, and still found nothing, I would have been disgusted at her false story.


It would not have proven her story false, because finding evidence either way was just about impossible.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #18 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:53pm
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I heard today that Kavanaugh's actual seat will be next to Elena Kagan, Obama's former Solicitor General, who participated in the drafting of Obamacare, but did not recuse herself when the Affordable Care Act came up before the Court.  She also hired Brett Kavanaugh to teach at Harvard Law School with she was Dean.
  

" The few will always act like the few.�

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Freon_Bale
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Re: High chair for the high court...
Reply #19 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:43pm:
This is true of anybody making untrue accusations.

And I am not accusing her of lying.

I am saying her allegations, without evidence, should be ignored. Her evidence free allegations of activity nearly 40 years old should be dismissed without evidence.

As they have been. Because that's what a rational society does with evidence-free allegations. It's a good thing, too.


I really do understand your point of view, but is it ok if we just put a sexual predator on the SCOTUS?

The rule of law agrees with you. But common sense tells me this is worth digging into and knowing for sure. This isn't someone looking for a loan, or a job at a McDonalds, this is someone who will determine the legality of issues directly involving victims like Ford. That is too high a bar not to take this accusation seriously.

By not doing so, those who sided with Kavanaugh are condoning his accused behavior, even if he is truly innocent. That is where we are right now, and I don't believe for a second that this is over.

What Trump should have done, the presidential thing to do, was sew the tear in our country by picking another candidate without any right- or left-leaning prejudices. I don't think anyone with those leanings should be on the SCOTUS. Just interpret that law without bias so all sides feel they are being treated fairly.
  
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