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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court (Read 628 times)
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #20 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 11:15am
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Fiddler wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Yes.. it was ..

Christians used the bible to justify owning slaves..


But they were not enslaving BECAUSE of religious beliefs.  They were enslaving because of money.  There is a difference.

Where they made their mistake was when asked "How do you reconcile your stated Christian beliefs to your ownership of human beings also made in the image of God?" they should have answered "I don't.  I just compartmentalize it so I can keep making all this money" rather than "Well, it's in the BIBLE!"
  

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Limey.
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #21 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 1:01pm
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PaleoCon wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 8:58am:
Society and common sense.



Hm. By a mechanism called 'law'.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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PaleoCon
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #22 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 2:58pm
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Limey. wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
Hm. By a mechanism called 'law'.


Do tell.

I'm certainly not advocating for anarchy, just minimal interference from the government as originally envisioned (well, envisioned as a republic by my ancestors;I'm assuming your ancestors were on the other side) We have laws against theft, rape and murder as well, all based on common sense moral standards.
  

At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats. P.J. ORourke
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Limey.
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #23 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 3:24pm
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PaleoCon wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 2:58pm:
Do tell.

I'm certainly not advocating for anarchy, just minimal interference from the government as originally envisioned (well, envisioned as a republic by my ancestors;I'm assuming your ancestors were on the other side) We have laws against theft, rape and murder as well, all based on common sense moral standards.



You’re suggesting that common sense moral standards should allow shops, hospitals and churches to have signs saying ‘no queers, dykes, coons or Jews’. 


If that were the case, as you want, what would you have happen to an uppity queer who walked in to a cake shop, just out of interest?


I have no idea about my ancestors’ position on American independence but many of them were Chartists, so not exactly a bunch of Monarchists.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #24 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 3:43pm
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Limey. wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 3:24pm:
You’re suggesting that common sense moral standards should allow shops, hospitals and churches to have signs saying ‘no queers, dykes, coons or Jews’.  If that were the case, as you want, what would you have happen to an uppity queer who walked in to a cake shop, just out of interest?


Liberty should allow any restriction for any reason or no reason at all.

If the fictional person that you describe walked into a cake shop, why should the current owner of those cakes be obligated to sell any of them to him? Has the baker suddenly surrendered ownership of his own goods and turned them over to the government for distribution? And why isn't it a two way street? Would you support forcing that "uppity queer" to buy a cake from a Christian baker rather than the gay baker down the street? Or does that "uppity queer" have the.....wait for it....LIBERTY.... to shop where he pleases?

Limey. wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 3:24pm:
I have no idea about my ancestors’ position on American independence but many of them were Chartists, so not exactly a bunch of Monarchists.


Chartists? As far as I know, that UK reform movement didn't happen until the late 1830s, long past our Revolution.
  

At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats. P.J. ORourke
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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #25 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 7:15pm
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Limey. wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 3:24pm:
You’re suggesting that common sense moral standards should allow shops, hospitals and churches to have signs saying ‘no queers, dykes, coons or Jews’. 


That would depend on what you mean by allow.  Legally, of course it should be allowed.

But it doesn't need to be "allowed" in terms of voluntary associations.  I would not "allow" any organization I associate with to do this sort of thing.

Do you think JP Morgan Chase would be willing to associate with these places?  How about American Express?  How about the vast majority of customers?  If you sold engineering services, would you sell them to businesses that display such signs?  I wouldn't sell my services to businesses like that. 

And would not be their customer.  Would you?

Quote:
If that were the case, as you want,


I think you are confusing "legally allow" with "want".

Quote:
what would you have happen to an uppity queer who walked in to a cake shop, just out of interest?


You mean a cake shop that chose to refuse services to homosexuals?  It wasn't directed at me, but I would hope that the shop owner would simply ask the person to leave and the person would comply, with zero violence from either side.  If they chose not to end their trespassing I would have them made to leave with what minimum force may be necessary to do so.
  
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #26 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 8:01pm
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I don’t understand why Christians (I’m Catholic conservative) can’t understand that if Jesus were on earth he would embrace all people. How hard is it to be a good neighbor and treat others how you’d want to be treated.

I understand it’s your business and you shouldn’t be forced to do something your are against.

But jeez. We aren’t here all that long. They’d feel so much better about their life here on earth if they just really practiced what God taught. Just follow the golden rule. It’s not that hard.
  
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #27 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 9:31pm
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Ulysses wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 9:12am:
So you'd be OK with a private hospital ER room refusing to treat a car crash victim because she was wearing a gold cross on a gold necklace?

Really?



There are more than one person in an ER room. Most of the medical people that I know believe in a God. None of their Gods don’t want them to save a life. Most are Jewish or Christians. And they are there to save lives, not make a cake.
Try again.
Smiley
  

Freedom
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Limey.
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #28 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 6:37pm
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Archie wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 9:31pm:
There are more than one person in an ER room. Most of the medical people that I know believe in a God. None of their Gods don’t want them to save a life. Most are Jewish or Christians. And they are there to save lives, not make a cake.
Try again.
Smiley



You try again.


That is exactly what those in favour of indulging bigots want to happen.


They want it to be OK to let an Asian child die outside an ER with a sign on its door reading “whites only”.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Gay cake Christian baker win in UK court
Reply #29 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 6:44pm
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petep wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 8:01pm:
I don’t understand why Christians (I’m Catholic conservative) can’t understand that if Jesus were on earth he would embrace all people. How hard is it to be a good neighbor and treat others how you’d want to be treated.

I understand it’s your business and you shouldn’t be forced to do something your are against.

But jeez. We aren’t here all that long. They’d feel so much better about their life here on earth if they just really practiced what God taught. Just follow the golden rule. It’s not that hard.


In America there used to be bigots who insisted that interracial marriage was sinful. They'd quote the Bible to justify their bigotry. They even managed to get a number of states to make it a crime.

Jesus said love one another. He didn't put restrictions on who you love or why.

It's the supposed Christian bigots who are going to hell.

  

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross, and wearing road kill as a toupée
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