Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Protection, Trade and the Economy
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Protection, Trade and the Economy (Read 167 times)
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 35,227
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Protection, Trade and the Economy
Oct 11th, 2018 at 3:27pm
Print Post  
“Free trade consists simply in letting people buy and sell as they want to buy and sell. It is protection that requires force, for it consists in preventing people from doing what they want to do. Protective tariffs are as much applications of force as are blockading squadrons, and their object is the same—to prevent trade. The difference between the two is that blockading squadrons are a means whereby nations seek to prevent their enemies from trading; protective tariffs are a means whereby nations attempt to prevent their own people from trading. What protection teaches us, is to do to ourselves in time of peace what enemies seek to do to us in time of war.” — Henry George

That final statement is pure gold.

"Protection teaches us to do to ourselves in time of peace what enemies seek to do to us in time of war."

For this reason tariffs are a poor negotiating tactic. You don't threaten your enemies by undermining your own economy and reducing the living standards of your own citizens.

You don't win a war by shooting your own troops. You don't grow an economy by reducing trade.

Make no mistake. The argument that tariffs are a negotiating tactic to get us to free trade is a rouse. It's cover.

Reduced trade is the goal. Protection is the goal.

This is a mercantilist movement. And it is determined to make war on the American people.

Quote:
Instead of "trade wars," let's call them what they really are: economic suicide bombings. Steve Horwitz
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2018 at 4:08pm by TowardLiberty »  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mojo-Jojo
LNF Representative2
***
Offline

The hobo fohmally known
as Jojo is no mo'.

Posts: 2,584
Location: Appalachia, USA
Joined: Jun 29th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #1 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:30pm
Print Post  
The GOP has amnesia right now. They'll be back and blaming the Dems for the economic cost of tariffs. Mark my words.  Grin
  

If you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table, not a taller fence.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jasmine
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
Conservative Caucus
*****
Offline

God Bless America!

Posts: 36,406
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Jul 28th, 2008
Gender: Female
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #2 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:37pm
Print Post  
Good thoughts, TL. But I will pose a question:

What if we are in a trade deal that we determine is weighted against us? In other words, what if we're in a deal that we deem to be unfair to our side? What can/should we do to change it?
  


President Trump turned you into a snowflake? Woman up!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
admin
LNF Administrator
*****
Offline

To contact Admin send
a PM

Posts: 11,600
Location: USA - Land of Liberty
Joined: Oct 9th, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #3 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:47pm
Print Post  
Jasmine wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:37pm:
Good thoughts, TL. But I will pose a question:

What if we are in a trade deal that we determine is weighted against us? In other words, what if we're in a deal that we deem to be unfair to our side? What can/should we do to change it?

- the fake free traders will say the US should be ripped off - and claim thats free trade - if we do the same then they say that's not free trade and at the same time want you to believe that foreign nations can do anything against the US like tariffs, quotas, dumping, government subsidies, are all free trade
  

Welcome to the Liberty News Forum - News and Political Discussion Forum.
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Jasmine
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
Conservative Caucus
*****
Offline

God Bless America!

Posts: 36,406
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Jul 28th, 2008
Gender: Female
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #4 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:51pm
Print Post  
admin wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:47pm:
- the fake free traders will say the US should be ripped off - and claim thats free trade - if we do the same then they say that's not free trade and at the same time want you to believe that foreign nations can do anything against the US like tariffs, quotas, dumping, government subsidies, are all free trade

What I like about Trump is that he's dumping or undoing deals that he deems are bad for the U.S. interests: Paris Accord, Iran, NAFTA, China, etc. If the end results mean getting us a more favorable deal, I think that would only be positive.
  


President Trump turned you into a snowflake? Woman up!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 35,227
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #5 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 6:05pm
Print Post  
Jasmine wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:37pm:
Good thoughts, TL. But I will pose a question:

What if we are in a trade deal that we determine is weighted against us? In other words, what if we're in a deal that we deem to be unfair to our side? What can/should we do to change it?

The same thing we do when we want people to give us something in other instances: offer something in exchange.

We protect and subsidize certain industries. We could offer to reduce those protections in exchange for a reduction on their end.
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2018 at 6:10pm by TowardLiberty »  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 35,227
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #6 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 6:10pm
Print Post  
admin wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 5:47pm:
- the fake free traders will say the US should be ripped off - and claim thats free trade - if we do the same then they say that's not free trade and at the same time want you to believe that foreign nations can do anything against the US like tariffs, quotas, dumping, government subsidies, are all free trade


That's a good example of not listening to the opposition.

No one thinks the US should be ripped off. In fact, the argument against trade with China is the opposite- that they sell to us too cheap.

That's not being ripped off. That's being given a gift.

There are many things anti-tariff folks don't like about our current trade deals. We complain that they are not free enough.

Where we part ways is in thinking that this is reason to make our trade situation even worse.

Let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good. No perfect free trade deal is possible. At best we can move towards free trade by reducing tariffs, duties and subsidies. But we're not going to get there via a trade war.

If anything we will get the opposite.

  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 10,026
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #7 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 7:56pm
Print Post  
Hi tl. I have one for you. And it is based on a true example

Let’s suppose due to economies of scale the low cost production and pricing occurs when there is one supplier. And this supplier basically has a monopoly. And it’s debated whether or not the producer is engaging in monopolistic behavior. So the govt breaks up the monopoly and now you have several suppliers. But prices go up for all consumers because the economies of scale are lost. Which side do you fall on. The one supplier monopoly or the many supplier higher cost across the board.

Good thread. I like these.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Archie
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 21,560
Location: Melbourne Florida
Joined: Mar 13th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #8 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 10:11pm
Print Post  
TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 11th, 2018 at 6:05pm:
The same thing we do when we want people to give us something in other instances: offer something in exchange.

We protect and subsidize certain industries. We could offer to reduce those protections in exchange for a reduction on their end.



That is what Trump is doing. We have been getting ripped off for years. Our products are more expensive sold in other countries. So people there buy more made in their own country. Then we have to pay such high tariffs that their products are sold here much cheaper and it hurts our manufacturing prices. Trump knows what he is doing. We may come to a deal where the tariffs will be lower, and maybe the same for each of us. They charge 5% instead of 25% and we do the same.  Even Steven.
Smiley
  

Freedom
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
patrick2
LNF Speaker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 17,388
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Protection, Trade and the Economy
Reply #9 - Oct 11th, 2018 at 10:16pm
Print Post  
You continue to duck the issue of what the victim is supposed to do when ONE side stops trading fairly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Protection, Trade and the Economy

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules