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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets (Read 4,260 times)
Ulysses
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #60 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 1:20am
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Jasmine wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 12:05am:
I doubt Q cares what you think, Ulysses. At all.

In fact, I don't think anyone does. You're stupid.


You just prove how idiotic and ignorant you are with every post.

Good job, if that's your objective.
  

What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories. In these stories it doesn't matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame. - V. Legasov
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forgotten centrist
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #61 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 10:59am
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Never said ranchers were evil for accepting subsidies.  I'm saying an industry has captured government subsidies and regulatory support in great disproportion to what it contributes to the economy.  It's the same thing with the health complex, higher ed, and defense contractors.  There is a reasonable imperative to support and protect certain endeavors, for the betterment and stability of society at large -- domestic food production is perhaps at the top of that list.

But inevitably, each of these protected sectors gets infested with large industrial interests who lobby for and win government concessions that seem to become untouchable third-rails.  The resulting bloat and inefficiency runs counter to their initial social imperatives.

I'm not calling for an end to all govt protection and subsidy for food production.  But I'm saying that certain kinds of food production have been overemphasized, to the ultimate detriment of society.  In a similar way, I think govt should pay for public roads, but when they overemphasize highways over all other transportation, they start *causing* problems instead of fixing them.

In a microscope, it makes sense to pay farmers conservation subsidies -- leave some of your pastures ungrazed, some of your fields unplowed, for a year or two, and we'll smooth out the bumps in your farm income.  But if we pile on support for bad weather, droughts, disaster (ie: bad weather and droughts), then we risk doubly or triply covering risk.  We "reward" risk, which wasn't the goal.

We kill predators and round up wild horses to make room for more cows, which cause more erosion and pollution.  Cascading ill effects from overemphasis.  We provide and subsidize insurance -- why?  We are already removing risk three times over.  Now we need to remove risk a fourth time?  And obviously these subsidies tend to accrete mostly to market leaders, who reinvest their winnings to secure and extend govt supports.

In the case of livestock -- particularly in the case of cattle -- these effects are multiplied, because most livestock is raised on feed for much of its life.  Feed growers have their own deep well of subsidies and tripled rewards of risk.  If 20 pounds of soy go into each pound of beef, then 20 pounds of soy subsidies must be factored in.  A third of our land, by some estimates, is devoted to animal feed, and cattle is the king by far.

It stands to reason -- it is inefficient to convert protein from soy to beef protein.  Most of that energy gets lost in translation.  And with it comes a cascade of other impacts -- water consumption, manure pollution, soil degradation, herbicide/pesticide contamination, antibiotic/hormone abuse, etc.

This inefficiency and this cascade of downstream impacts is not only protected by govt support -- it is amplified.  We are no longer in a position of setting up the equivalent of crop insurance to make sure our farmers stay in business -- we are now putting public welfare in jeopardy to perpetuate the engine.

The point of this thread is not to call for veganism.  It's to suggest that by removing the single most damaging and expensive animal from our menu, we can enjoy significant benefits.  The link in the OP singled out greenhouse gas emissions, but the attendant benefits would be as widespread as the array of subsidies and market-distorting protections currently erected by the cattle industry are.
  

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BowHunter
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #62 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 1:07pm
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Ulysses wrote on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 8:22pm:
Hey, this is fun.

Quank is debating Himself.



Yeah, what else is new?
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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Genesee
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #63 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 5:37pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 10:09am:
Recently Harwatt and a team of scientists from Oregon State University, Bard College, and Loma Linda University calculated just what would happen if every American made one dietary change: substituting beans for beef. They found that if everyone were willing and able to do that—hypothetically—the U.S. could still come close to meeting its 2020 greenhouse-gas emission goals, pledged by President Barack Obama in 2009.

That is, even if nothing about our energy infrastructure or transportation system changed—and even if people kept eating chicken and pork and eggs and cheese—this one dietary change could achieve somewhere between 46 and 74 percent of the reductions needed to meet the target.


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/if-everyone-ate-beans-instead...


Grin
  

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Genesee
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #64 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 5:39pm
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Tell you what... Eff off. How about that?
Tongue
  

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PaleoCon
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #65 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 6:29pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Oct 23rd, 2018 at 10:09am:
Recently Harwatt and a team of scientists from Oregon State University, Bard College, and Loma Linda University calculated just what would happen if every American made one dietary change: substituting beans for beef. They found that if everyone were willing and able to do that—hypothetically—the U.S. could still come close to meeting its 2020 greenhouse-gas emission goals, pledged by President Barack Obama in 2009.

That is, even if nothing about our energy infrastructure or transportation system changed—and even if people kept eating chicken and pork and eggs and cheese—this one dietary change could achieve somewhere between 46 and 74 percent of the reductions needed to meet the target.


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/if-everyone-ate-beans-instead...


Methane emissions of pre-colonial buffalo herd estimated at three population sizes and contemporary beef and dairy herds



Carbon dioxide emissions of the pre-colonial buffalo herd estimated at three population sizes and contemporary beef and dairy herds



https://en.engormix.com/dairy-cattle/articles/greenhouse-gases-are-dairy-t35648....

Oops.

Looks like Elizabeth Warren's alleged ancestors were poor stewards of the environment. They allowed huge herds of flatulent buffalo to flourish. Wink
  

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Fiddler
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #66 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:02am
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PaleoCon wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 6:29pm:
Oops.




Yes ..  The "Oops" you science illiterates constantly make is forgetting that it's GLOBAL Bovine Flatulence Warming and not just American Bovine Flatulence Warming  ..


Still your attempt at seeming informed was cute ..

  

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Queshank
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #67 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am
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FC,

I appreciate your post.  I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.  I'm a bit stuck in a rut and I wanna break out of it and put more thought into my response than my typical BLAKHJ:LKAHS:LKJDAS stream of consciousness rant style I normally use.  So I need to do it when I've got more than 5 minutes to post.  It might take til this weekend so I'ma keep bumping this so I can find it.

Queshank
  

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petep
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #68 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:15am
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The left seems all over the place these days. They don’t believe in god as there is no proof. They believe in man made global warming, yet they “believed” in Kavanaughs guilt immediately, with not only no evidence, but the evidence witnesses presented denied any knowledge of such a party of being with Ford. Yet they still believed.
  
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Fiddler
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Re: swapping beef for beans would get us halfway to greenhouse gas targets
Reply #69 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:40am
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petep wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:15am:
They don’t believe in god as there is no proof.


No.. I don't believe in a god because there is no god..


petep wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:15am:
They believe in man made global warming,


Because the evidence overwhelmingly supports it.


petep wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:15am:
yet they “believed” in Kavanaughs guilt immediately, with not only no evidence, but the evidence witnesses presented denied any knowledge of such a party of being with Ford. Yet they still believed.


Seriously ..  Why do you continue to offer up the same lies over and over?

The 'believe' was that rational people BELIEVED that the charges Ford brought should be fully investigated.  They were not.
  

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