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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) PTSD - why not so much after wwii (Read 632 times)
petep
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PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Nov 8th, 2018 at 2:46pm
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In wwii we had a military 13x our current military size. Many horrid battles. Coming home, access to guns was easy. You could mail order guns.

The mental institutions really didn’t leak till the 1970’s

Why such a high incidence of ptsd, even not adjusted for per capita, over the past decade relative to prior decades, post wwii specifically.
  
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #1 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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petep wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 2:46pm:
In wwii we had a military 13x our current military size. Many horrid battles. Coming home, access to guns was easy. You could mail order guns.

The mental institutions really didn’t leak till the 1970’s

Why such a high incidence of ptsd, even not adjusted for per capita, over the past decade relative to prior decades, post wwii specifically.

Harder times prepare people more psychologically for the hell of actual battle.

That's my guess.

We live in a much easier, softer era. Nothing really to be done about it.

Back in the early 1900s? The 1800s?

Survival was not a given like it is now. People got conditioned to the cortisol and adrenaline of the relatively constant stress of life.

That being said, there were a lot of "shell shocked" soldiers returning from WWI, so I've read.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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petep
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #2 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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I know a number of people who have done multiple tours. All are fine. However, they have all said since gulf war I the rules of engagement have changed dramatically. As one said you practically must be shot at first before you can engage a threat, even if your judgement tells you it’s a certain threat. They all said their tours became far more stressful because of the changes over the years.
  
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Greg55_99
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #3 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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There has ALWAYS been "PTSD" affecting troops after wars.  Always.  It's only been in recent times we gave it a name.  What used to bother me so much was going into the local VA hospital in the 1990's and seeing so many older Vietnam era vets getting treatment from drug use.  That eased off until after Desert Storm when the number of vets afflicted shot back up.  Same after Afghanistan and Iraq II.

Greg
  

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petep
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #4 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:05pm
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Greg55_99 wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
There has ALWAYS been "PTSD" affecting troops after wars.  Always.  It's only been in recent times we gave it a name.  What used to bother me so much was going into the local VA hospital in the 1990's and seeing so many older Vietnam era vets getting treatment from drug use.  That eased off until after Desert Storm when the number of vets afflicted shot back up.  Same after Afghanistan and Iraq II.

Greg


I’d agree it’s always been an thing. But you’d think after wwii you would have seen it on a much larger scale after wwii. The tours were much longer. 13x the number in military. Why no mass shootings etc. and yes, you are right the drug use especially after Vietnam staggering. Surprised opium use in Afghanistan not higher but penalties are very high for it
  
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Wadsworth
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #5 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:15pm
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petep wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
I’d agree it’s always been an thing. But you’d think after wwii you would have seen it on a much larger scale after wwii. The tours were much longer. 13x the number in military. Why no mass shootings etc. and yes, you are right the drug use especially after Vietnam staggering. Surprised opium use in Afghanistan not higher but penalties are very high for it

PTSD or what they used to call "Shell Shock" has always been a issue for soldiers.  Mass shootings not so much.
  

Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Oct 18th, 2018 at 1:53pm:
The average person is going to starve and die.

Thus has it always been with humanity, before the advent of the Great Society.

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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #6 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:20pm
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petep wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
I know a number of people who have done multiple tours. All are fine. However, they have all said since gulf war I the rules of engagement have changed dramatically. As one said you practically must be shot at first before you can engage a threat, even if your judgement tells you it’s a certain threat. They all said their tours became far more stressful because of the changes over the years.

I did read something years back which might provide evidence for your post.

It was along the lines of Spec Ops personnel rarely suffering PTSD. There is something to PTSD which impacts soldiers who feel hunted more than those who are the hunters.

I suffered a slight case of PTSD (non-diagnosed, but fairly obvious) after my initial tour. For a couple of years. Minor symptoms. Loud noises would have me jump a bit out of my chair, with thoughts of trying to find a bunker. Nightmares of getting attacked by indirect fire.

I wasn't a hunter in the army. I ran logistics re-supply convoys around Iraq. We were targets. We were hunted. We had security teams attached that would hunt any attackers. Our orders were just to get out of dodge while returning fire. I didn't see a lot of action, but there was some.

So I tend to believe the idea that hunters experience far less PTSD than the hunted. And ROE would impact that.

It would also appear to explain why I read more about PTSD-type problems after WWI than after WWII. Particularly in Britain. Sitting in trenches while machine gun and artillery rounds are constantly going off would certainly be more of a "hunted" feeling than being the aggressor.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Mojo-Jojo
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #7 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:22pm
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Didn't most soldiers/sailors/airmen get shipped home on boats? The transition from combat to peace took awhile longer, and they went through it together. Flash forward to Vietnam (post-Korea conflict) and those returning from hot zones to peace/home do so in a day or two.

Something to be said about the slower decompression, with your mates...
  

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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #8 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:26pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
Didn't most soldiers/sailors/airmen get shipped home on boats? The transition from combat to peace took awhile longer, and they went through it together. Flash forward to Vietnam (post-Korea conflict) and those returning from hot zones to peace/home do so in a day or two.

Something to be said about the slower decompression, with your mates...

Interesting thought. Probably something to this as well.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Greg55_99
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Re: PTSD - why not so much after wwii
Reply #9 - Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:27pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Nov 8th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
Didn't most soldiers/sailors/airmen get shipped home on boats? The transition from combat to peace took awhile longer, and they went through it together. Flash forward to Vietnam (post-Korea conflict) and those returning from hot zones to peace/home do so in a day or two.

Something to be said about the slower decompression, with your mates...


You reminded me of a coworker of mine back in the 1970's in the steel mill.  The guy I knew was in his late twenties at that time and a Vietnam vet.  He got talking one day about the WORST thing the Army ever did to him.  He said he'd been in the field for several months.  Said the first time he killed a Cong, he felt really bad emotionally knowing he taken a human life.  But, after that it got to the point where he said he didn't feel right if he DIDN'T kill at least one Charlie a day.  The worst thing the Army did to him was give him orders in the field to go home on a Tuesday and by Thursday afternoon he was sitting in his Mothers living room.  Emotionally, he was a mess and it took some time to get himself straightened out.  I never forgot that.

Greg
  

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