Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela (Read 154 times)
Ulysses
LNF House Leader
LNF Bunker
****
Offline

THE DEMS WON THE HOUSE!
HA HA HA!

Posts: 8,912
Location: The Lodestar
Joined: Feb 19th, 2018
Re: - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Reply #10 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 8:45am
Print Post  
petep wrote on Nov 9th, 2018 at 7:10am:
Under socialism there is no private ownership of business

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

Socialism is an economic system, communism is a political system.

The ussr was a socialist country economically, govts owned everything, no private business ownership. Politically it was communist.

I’d agree that many aspects of our society have socialist type elements but fundamentally if businesses are privately owned it’s not at all socialist. It’s charity perhaps, the fact that many do not contribute to the federal budget and effectively live off others for raids, military and other taxpayer federally funded programs


As usual for you cons, you are cherry picking one of several definitions of socialism. From your own damn link:

Socialism vs. Social Democracy: Usage Guide

In the many years since socialism entered English around 1830, it has acquired several different meanings. It refers to a system of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control, but the conception of that control has varied, and the term has been interpreted in widely diverging ways, ranging from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. In the modern era, "pure" socialism has been seen only rarely and usually briefly in a few Communist regimes. Far more common are systems of social democracy, now often referred to as democratic socialism, in which extensive state regulation, with limited state ownership, has been employed by democratically elected governments (as in Sweden and Denmark) in the belief that it produces a fair distribution of income without impairing economic growth.


  

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross, and wearing road kill as a toupée
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Online


Posts: 9,633
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Reply #11 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 10:06am
Print Post  
Social democracy is not socialism.

Think of it this way. Ten of us move to a place and we each start businesses. Together we decide we should dig a pond so we agree to each contribute 1000 from our own money to go hire someone to come in and dig the pond. We have shared our resources for a common good and we entered a social contract - a coop of sorts - to do that

Under socialism, none of if own a business, there is a govt entity - call him Stalin - who owns everything and we all work for Stalin. Stalin decides he wants a pond so he uses the govts money, since he owns everything, to build it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ulysses
LNF House Leader
LNF Bunker
****
Offline

THE DEMS WON THE HOUSE!
HA HA HA!

Posts: 8,912
Location: The Lodestar
Joined: Feb 19th, 2018
Re: - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Reply #12 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 10:46am
Print Post  
petep wrote on Nov 9th, 2018 at 10:06am:
Social democracy is not socialism.

Think of it this way. Ten of us move to a place and we each start businesses. Together we decide we should dig a pond so we agree to each contribute 1000 from our own money to go hire someone to come in and dig the pond. We have shared our resources for a common good and we entered a social contract - a coop of sorts - to do that

Under socialism, none of if own a business, there is a govt entity - call him Stalin - who owns everything and we all work for Stalin. Stalin decides he wants a pond so he uses the govts money, since he owns everything, to build it.


So you're OK with Social Democracy?
  

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross, and wearing road kill as a toupée
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Online


Posts: 9,633
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Reply #13 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 11:55am
Print Post  
Ulysses wrote on Nov 9th, 2018 at 10:46am:

So you're OK with Social Democracy?


Yes of course. If it’s being defined as govts using funds for common public goods, and the citizens own the property and means of production.

I think as soon as any country starts a govt and imposed a tax - whether direct (sales tax) or indirect (income tax) with the intent of using these funds for common food, you have some form of coop, or social contract.

Many mistakenly refer to places like Sweden or Denmark as socialist countries. They are not, at all. Businesses are owned by private individuals, virtually all pay taxes, even the lowest income folks, and they use money for all the things we do plus a bigger unemployment safety net plus healthcare, as examples. But they are not the ussr, Cuba etc where govt owns everything.

I recall when Chavez seized or nationalized thenprivate oil companies in Venezuela. He was cheered by his people. People loved his promise to take over the evil oil companies who stole the people’s natural resources. Then, a year later when he had vast money control and the military, he decided, as Castro did, he should nationalize most everything. Then the people were weeping.

We all know the rest of that story.

The problem with tipping too close to socialism, or even a situation where your taxes are so high because the people have willingly turned over control to govt, even with the best intentions, is all it takes one bad guy or bad group, and it’s ridiculously easy to fall into a dictatorship. History has shown his happens again and again
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mojo-Jojo
LNF Representative2
***
Online

The hobo fohmally known
as Jojo is no mo'.

Posts: 2,461
Location: Appalachia, USA
Joined: Jun 29th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Reply #14 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 5:30pm
Print Post  
petep wrote on Nov 9th, 2018 at 11:55am:
Yes of course. If it’s being defined as govts using funds for common public goods, and the citizens own the property and means of production.

I think as soon as any country starts a govt and imposed a tax - whether direct (sales tax) or indirect (income tax) with the intent of using these funds for common food, you have some form of coop, or social contract.

Many mistakenly refer to places like Sweden or Denmark as socialist countries. They are not, at all. Businesses are owned by private individuals, virtually all pay taxes, even the lowest income folks, and they use money for all the things we do plus a bigger unemployment safety net plus healthcare, as examples. But they are not the ussr, Cuba etc where govt owns everything.

I recall when Chavez seized or nationalized thenprivate oil companies in Venezuela. He was cheered by his people. People loved his promise to take over the evil oil companies who stole the people’s natural resources. Then, a year later when he had vast money control and the military, he decided, as Castro did, he should nationalize most everything. Then the people were weeping.

We all know the rest of that story.

The problem with tipping too close to socialism, or even a situation where your taxes are so high because the people have willingly turned over control to govt, even with the best intentions, is all it takes one bad guy or bad group, and it’s ridiculously easy to fall into a dictatorship. History has shown his happens again and again


Good post and thanks for acknowledging the distinctions. A large portion of Democrats consider themselves social democrats and are just as averse to handing over the means of production as our Republican counterparts. But, when it comes to political mud-slingging, ref: OP, we Dems are all (((SOCIALISTS))).

I wish more would recognize this distinction.

Screw it, you're a FASCIST  and I'm a COMMIE!  Grin
  

If you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table, not a taller fence.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jasmine
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
Conservative Caucus
*****
Online

God Bless America!

Posts: 36,017
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Jul 28th, 2008
Gender: Female
Re: - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Reply #15 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 5:51pm
Print Post  


"Whoa, Nellie! Valenzuealeans!"
  


President Trump turned you into a snowflake? Woman up!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Online


Posts: 9,633
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela
Reply #16 - Nov 9th, 2018 at 7:09pm
Print Post  
Mojo-Jojo wrote on Nov 9th, 2018 at 5:30pm:
Good post and thanks for acknowledging the distinctions. A large portion of Democrats consider themselves social democrats and are just as averse to handing over the means of production as our Republican counterparts. But, when it comes to political mud-slingging, ref: OP, we Dems are all (((SOCIALISTS))).

I wish more would recognize this distinction.

Screw it, you're a FASCIST  and I'm a COMMIE!  Grin


Thx. Agree with you completely.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › - socialists in the US will like this story in socialist Venezuela

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules