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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) overview of "this Russia thing" (Read 552 times)
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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #20 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 2:49pm
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Greg55_99 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 12:38pm:
40 seats Q.  I'd say it's been pretty effective.

Greg

23 less than the obumbler lost AND he actually gained seats in the Senate so I would hardly call that effective.
  

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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #21 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 2:50pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 11:11am:
Caught this summary of the Trump-Russia case on The Week, and thought I'd post an abbreviated summary here (with one or two tweaks of my own.)

The gist of it is that while we don't yet have an ironclad criminal case here, we do have a chain of events and evidence that defy reasonable attempts to explain them away.

Discuss!

https://theweek.com/articles/809544

1. A professor with close ties to the Russian govt offered opposition research to Papadopoulos.  Papadopoulos lied about this, was arrested, pled guilty, and went to jail.


He also had very close ties to the UK and US governments.  And now, oddly, he is nowhere to be found.

Quote:
2. A music producer offered Trump Jr. dirt on Clinton, and Jr. replied "I love it".  He and the rest of Trump's campaign team did the infamous Trump Tower meeting with the Russian lawyer.


I think "the rest of Trump's campaign team" overstates it.

Quote:
3. Wikileaks started posting batches of emails from the DNC and Podesta, leaking them out at intervals, as if to maximize their impact on the presidential campaign.

4. Trump called for the Russians to publish Hillary's 33k emails.  That same day, Russian hackers attempted to do just that.


Russian hackers or hackers that the narrative says must be Russian?

Quote:
5. Assange has been trapped in an embassy in London, afraid of extradition to the US.  He was motivated to help Trump, in hopes of getting out of his extradition hazard and finally escape the embassy.


Is this a stated motivation or an assumed one due to narrative?

Quote:
6. Trump declared (repeatedly) how much he loves wikileaks.

7. One of Obama's final actions was to sanction Russia over election meddling.  Flynn (Trump's future National Security Adviser) contacted the Russian ambassador to undermine the sanctions, was later fired by Trump, and then pled guilty to lying to the FBI about this.

8. Trump fired Comey after not securing his personal loyalty, and in an effort to stop the Russia investigation (which had started out as a counter-intelligence investigation).


And after Rosentein explained why he ought to be fired. 

Quote:
Trump fumed endlessly about Sessions' recusal.  He attempted to fire Mueller directly, stopping only when his lawyer threatened to resign.  He has now installed a sycophant (Whitaker) as AG, with the intent of "limiting" the investigation.


Again, stated intent or narrative driven assumption?

Quote:
9. Trump has consistently praised Putin and offered no criticism of him, while aggressively criticizing pretty much every other world leader he comes in contact with. 


No criticism?  Aren't you overstating things again?

Quote:
We also know that Trump was seeking to do business in Moscow before and during the election, while claiming repeatedly not to.


When were these claims made?

Quote:
10. Trump and his campaign team have lied about every aspect of Trumps relationship with Russia.


Every aspect?  Russia the government or Russia the geographic location?

Greg55_99 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 12:49pm:
Dems took over the House Q.  Number of seats is pretty big.  In the end, it's like being "A little bit pregnant".  Needless to say, Trump has been LYING to the American public about his Kremlin deals for over two years.  The Russians knew it.  So what did they get out of him for keeping quiet?  That's the question.

Greg


Hopefully they didn't get much out of it, since they, apparently, leaked it to you...

  
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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #22 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 2:51pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 11:11am:
Caught this summary of the Trump-Russia case on The Week, and thought I'd post an abbreviated summary here (with one or two tweaks of my own.)

The gist of it is that while we don't yet have an ironclad criminal case here, we do have a chain of events and evidence that defy reasonable attempts to explain them away.

Discuss!

https://theweek.com/articles/809544

1. A professor with close ties to the Russian govt offered opposition research to Papadopoulos.  Papadopoulos lied about this, was arrested, pled guilty, and went to jail.

2. A music producer offered Trump Jr. dirt on Clinton, and Jr. replied "I love it".  He and the rest of Trump's campaign team did the infamous Trump Tower meeting with the Russian lawyer.

3. Wikileaks started posting batches of emails from the DNC and Podesta, leaking them out at intervals, as if to maximize their impact on the presidential campaign.

4. Trump called for the Russians to publish Hillary's 33k emails.  That same day, Russian hackers attempted to do just that.

5. Assange has been trapped in an embassy in London, afraid of extradition to the US.  He was motivated to help Trump, in hopes of getting out of his extradition hazard and finally escape the embassy.

6. Trump declared (repeatedly) how much he loves wikileaks.

7. One of Obama's final actions was to sanction Russia over election meddling.  Flynn (Trump's future National Security Adviser) contacted the Russian ambassador to undermine the sanctions, was later fired by Trump, and then pled guilty to lying to the FBI about this.

8. Trump fired Comey after not securing his personal loyalty, and in an effort to stop the Russia investigation (which had started out as a counter-intelligence investigation).  Trump fumed endlessly about Sessions' recusal.  He attempted to fire Mueller directly, stopping only when his lawyer threatened to resign.  He has now installed a sycophant (Whitaker) as AG, with the intent of "limiting" the investigation.

9. Trump has consistently praised Putin and offered no criticism of him, while aggressively criticizing pretty much every other world leader he comes in contact with.  We also know that Trump was seeking to do business in Moscow before and during the election, while claiming repeatedly not to.

10. Trump and his campaign team have lied about every aspect of Trumps relationship with Russia.


Excellent summary, FC. Thanks for posting that!
  

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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #23 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:13pm
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Let me ask the question that everyone should also ask.  Why are there not republicans on Meuller's team?  His staff gives the appearance of bias. Anyone who has ever served or worked with the Federal government, they always seem to be concerned about the appearance of bias in their reports.  This does not seem to be the case with Meuller.
  


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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #24 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:14pm
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Seawolf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:13pm:
Let me ask the question that everyone should also ask.  Why are there not republicans on Meuller's team?  His staff gives the appearance of bias. Anyone who has ever served or worked with the Federal government, they always seem to be concerned about the appearance of bias in their reports.  This does not seem to be the case with Meuller.


How do you know there aren't?
  

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Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #25 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:18pm
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Seawolf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:13pm:
Let me ask the question that everyone should also ask.  Why are there not republicans on Meuller's team?  His staff gives the appearance of bias. Anyone who has ever served or worked with the Federal government, they always seem to be concerned about the appearance of bias in their reports.  This does not seem to be the case with Meuller.


Mueller is a Republican CC...

Greg
  

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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #26 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:19pm
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Lomelis wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:14pm:
How do you know there aren't?

His staff has been looked at closely.  Care to show me otherwise?  I am open for correction to my remarks, are you?  Seems that we only debate to prove how right we are or how wrong the other person is rather then an actual discussion about the facts we do have to openly discuss.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #27 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:23pm
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Greg55_99 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:18pm:
Mueller is a Republican CC...

Greg

Fair.  I have serious issues with him because of his ties with Comey, that makes it a conflict of interest for him to be heading this up.  That is a valid concern expressed by many.  Regarding his Republican ties, there are a whole host of Republicans who are not fans of Trump or his win.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #28 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:30pm
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I can state that the Dems were advocating for their base to vote Trump in state elections for the primary that would allow Dems to vote.  Their strategy was that he would be an easy victory for the Dem party.  He obviously was not.  On the other side, the Rep party felt burned by his nomination since he was not a valid candidate in their own eyes.  Both sides missed what was laid out before them and I think they both are still in denial of what the voters were saying.  Q covered this in his remarks a few pages back.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: overview of "this Russia thing"
Reply #29 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 4:09pm
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Seawolf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2018 at 3:30pm:
I can state that the Dems were advocating for their base to vote Trump in state elections for the primary that would allow Dems to vote.  Their strategy was that he would be an easy victory for the Dem party.  He obviously was not.  On the other side, the Rep party felt burned by his nomination since he was not a valid candidate in their own eyes.  Both sides missed what was laid out before them and I think they both are still in denial of what the voters were saying.  Q covered this in his remarks a few pages back.


The President has lied about his ties to Russian interests for over two years.  LIED.  Why shouldn't he be investigated?

Greg
  

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