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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain. (Read 369 times)
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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #20 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:09am
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Waking in a Wally Wonderland wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 8:00am:
So. you think that Putin controlled the votes of the majority of the British people who voted to leave the European Union?   You statement is pretty shallow.  Think about it Mate.  Wouldn't Putin rather see the European Union split up?  Why would Putin have a "plan" to unite the EU and make them stronger?


You appear to be quite confused.

Putin wants to weaken the EU. Brexit weakens the EU. Therefore, Putin was for Brexit. People are saying that Russian operatives worked behind the scenes to sway British public opinion against the EU prior to the vote. Who knows what other skullduggery Putin's thugs were up to?

Brexit does NOT strengthen the EU.
  

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #21 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:15am
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Jasmine wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 9:14pm:

I can understand your distaste for Brexit. You have an emotional tie to your country, and rightfully so.

For me, I celebrate Brexit because I support sovereignty over international homogenuity. I don't like international bodies that think they can tell individual nations what to do. [/quote]

Hawaii was an independent nation before it joined the USA. If Hawaii voted to leave the USA, should it be allowed to do so?

Same would go for Texas, all the 13 original colony states, and California (briefly a republic before it became one of the US states).

Seems to me we fought a bloody civil war over a similar issue.

Let me know how Hulaxit works out for you.
  

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #22 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:33am
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Jasmine wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 7:58pm:
Bill Clinton won the 1992 Presidential election with 43% of the vote. He still became president. Did the Brexiters not win the vote?


Do you know the difference between a plurality in a vote and the preferences of a majority of all registered voters regardless of whether or not they voted?

Was there a third party candidate in the election that passed Brexit?

Should the USA do away with the Electoral College and instead use a ranked choice direct vote?
  

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #23 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:04am
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Jasmine wrote on Dec 5th, 2018 at 7:58pm:
Bill Clinton won the 1992 Presidential election with 43% of the vote. He still became president. Did the Brexiters not win the vote?
indeed the vote was won by the leavers.


I was explaining that this doesn't mean that "the Brits want Brexit".

Are you under the impression that every American wanted Bill Clinton as President?

Quote:
What club forces its members to stay a member?

A sports league is a body that comes to existence, and then it chooses its teams. The EU is a bunch of countries that existed on their own before the EU was formed.




The EU is  not trying to force the UK to stay.


Quote:
Limey, do you think a country should be required to obey a U.N. directive?



The UN doesn't issue directives.
  

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #24 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:40am
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Limey. wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:04am:
indeed the vote was won by the leavers.


I was explaining that this doesn't mean that "the Brits want Brexit".

Are you under the impression that every American wanted Bill Clinton as President?




The EU is  not trying to force the UK to stay.




The UN doesn't issue directives.

The reasons that pure democracies never work is because only the majority wins each and every time.  Nevertheless, democratic republics rely on the democratic system of elections and elections have consequences.  Our elected Public Servants must faithfully support the will of those who elected them or they will be replaced.  Voters have a patriotic responsibility to accept the results of free and fair elections, otherwise you have either a Tyranny of an elite Oligarchy or total anarchy!
  

" The few will always act like the few.�

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #25 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 9:15am
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Waking in a Wally Wonderland wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 8:40am:
The reasons that pure democracies never work is because only the majority wins each and every time.  Nevertheless, democratic republics rely on the democratic system of elections and elections have consequences.  Our elected Public Servants must faithfully support the will of those who elected them or they will be replaced.  Voters have a patriotic responsibility to accept the results of free and fair elections, otherwise you have either a Tyranny of an elite Oligarchy or total anarchy!



...and that is why I, and most others who sensibly voted Remain, will accept Brexit.

You really don't have to lecture me on the mechanics of democracy Wally.

What you and others should do, though, is stop imagining that Brexit is 'the People's Will' as if everyone wants it but the evil Establishment are foiling them.


Not so.
  

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #26 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:47pm
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Limey. wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 9:15am:
...and that is why I, and most others who sensibly voted Remain, will accept Brexit.

You really don't have to lecture me on the mechanics of democracy Wally.

What you and others should do, though, is stop imagining that Brexit is 'the People's Will' as if everyone wants it but the evil Establishment are foiling them.


Not so.

Sorry, my friend.  I didn't intend to lecture you. 

As with our 2016 Presidential election, "the people's will" is an almost evenly split decision.  Isn't this the case with Brexit?  As with Brexit, "elections have consequences".  The winners ought not become the losers by some sort of sleight of hand of illegal interference in the implementation of the policies of the people who won an election.  The option is either Tyranny  and despotism or Anarchy!
  

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #27 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:50pm
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Waking in a Wally Wonderland wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
Sorry, my friend.  I didn't intend to lecture you. 

As with our 2016 Presidential election, "the people's will" is an almost evenly split decision.  Isn't this the case with Brexit?

As with Brexit, "elections have consequences".  The winners ought not become the losers by some sort of sleight of hand of illegal interference in the implementation of the policies of the people who won an election.  The option is either Tyranny  and despotism or Anarchy!


At one level you are quite right.


Many here are deeply uneasy as the cocnsequences of Brexit become clearer, and are very different from the prospectus offered by those championing Leave.

This isn't a normal election - you get a dodgy Government, well, hey, it's only a few years until the next Election.

This is a once in a generation thing and we are beginning to realise that the political class have screwed up very badly indeed.

Many who didn't vote are now in the 'modify or rescind Brexit' camp, if I can call it that. Not a few Brexiters have changed their mind entirely, or are feeling very betrayed.

We are in a strange situation where the ardent Brexiters are, in effect, saying that the economic downside is worth if for increased sovereignty even as that sovereignty is diminished by the greatly increased chance of breaking up the country they claim to care about so much.

It's the worst political fumble since appeasement, it really is.
  

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #28 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:56pm
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Limey. wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:50pm:
At one level you are quite right.


Many here are deeply uneasy as the cocnsequences of Brexit become clearer, and are very different from the prospectus offered by those championing Leave.

This isn't a normal election - you get a dodgy Government, well, hey, it's only a few years until the next Election.

This is a once in a generation thing and we are beginning to realise that the political class have screwed up very badly indeed.

Many who didn't vote are now in the 'modify or rescind Brexit' camp, if I can call it that. Not a few Brexiters have changed their mind entirely, or are feeling very betrayed.

We are in a strange situation where the ardent Brexiters are, in effect, saying that the economic downside is worth if for increased sovereignty even as that sovereignty is diminished by the greatly increased chance of breaking up the country they claim to care about so much.

It's the worst political fumble since appeasement, it really is.

With any luck the EU will fall apart and each of the nation states will leave without any penalties to the other members who otherwise would stay.  Like the mythological Phoenix, perhaps better trade and security alliances with individual European nations will emerge from the ashes of this failed scheme which was designed to end nation states and erase borders.

The European Union is living on borrowed time.  Citizens love their countries more than they do the ideas of the Elites.
  

" The few will always act like the few.�

�Machiavelli

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Re: BREXIT Dead? Apparently, the EU has a veto over the citizens of Great Britain.
Reply #29 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 3:28pm
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The EU is extremely popular in most member states, despite its two major problems - lack of accountability/democracy, and relentless propaganda against it.
  

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