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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) what's going on in Wisconsin? (Read 288 times)
Queshank
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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin
Reply #10 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:07pm
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With days left in office, President Obama ushers in dozens of policies. But will they stay seated? - WaPo - 1/14/17

In the past week, the Obama administration overturned a decades­-old policy toward Cuban immigrants, forged two major agreements to address racial bias in big-city police departments and approved an unexpected cut in mortgage insurance premiums for hundreds of thousands of low-income and first-time home buyers.

Officials even made time, after years of lobbying, to add the rusty patched bumble bee to the list of endangered species.

In the final days before President Obama leaves office, administration officials are rushing to complete dozens of tasks that will affect millions of lives and solidify the president’s imprint on history. But in many cases, their permanence is uncertain, and President-elect Donald Trump is already pledging to undo some of them after taking office.

“He is clearly using executive power aggressively and trying to do as much as possible in his final days,” Princeton University history and public affairs professor Julian Zelizer said in an email. “It is clear that a president who was once reluctant to use the power of his own office has changed his heart, especially now that he sees a radically conservative Congress and Republican president-elect are getting ready to dismantle much of what he has done.”


Obama's Legacy: Here's A Raft Of Executive Actions Trump May Target - Forbes - Jan 16, 2017

Election year 2016 was no time for Obama to pursue a legislative agenda for Congress to ignore, thus his “We Can’t Wait” campaign and the touting of executive action on gun control, Syrian refugees, closing Guantanamo, global warming, income inequality and other issues.

And as the year progressed, we saw a rash of new agency regulations.

Despite a letter warning against last minute regulation from House leadership, it's been like a swarm of hornets.

Obama's intended legacy--that of implementing the progressive agenda of more federal power, the rule of unelected experts, and middle-class dependency on the state--presumably depended upon a Clinton victory. But after Mr. Trump's inauguration, we’ll find out.

Obama calculates, very likely correctly, that many of his initiatives will stick, in the same way Obamacare may get tweaked and renamed rather than repealed.

If executive action is sticky, will Democrats remain OK with the pen and phone, or will they rediscover the separation of powers? Will they be inclined to work with the Republican majority on partial restoration of the Constitution’s checks and balances, as promised in Speaker Paul Ryan’s A Better Way?


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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #11 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:16pm
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Queshank wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
Yeah.

Like Obama did.

Queshank


Your examples cover executive actions that can be undone by the next incoming executive.  In Wisconsin, they are rewriting the rules so that the next incoming executive CAN'T undo them.
  

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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #12 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 4:41pm
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Greg55_99 wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 10:14am:
What's going on is the people voted in Democrats and the Republicans are scheming to hold on to power.

Very simple.

Greg


Word™

I was reading about the changes and thought, how blatantly political! Scott Walker and his AG were A-OK with their power until they no longer held the seat! LOL
  

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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #13 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 5:01pm
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Queshank wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
It's not really much different than all the executive orders Obama signed on his way out the door to try to block development in certain areas and to preserve his "legacy."

Which Trump then immediately undid to universal criticism for undoing Obama's "legacy" because he's either A- Jealous or B- Racist, you pick.

All the people of Wisconsin have to do is exactly what the people of the United States did.  Elect people who will undo them.

It is, after all, what Republicans did in the 90s to overcome decades of Democratic gerrymandering.  It's not like there's not precedent.

Queshank


This is frankly not true at all, and misunderstands the role of executive orders.

It would be the same if Obama adopted executive orders that prohibited future presidents from adopting them, or constrained presidential power in any way.

Obama's E.O.s did not and could not do so, because they aren't legislation. They simply advanced policies that the administration wanted to preserve, but the next administration, as we've seen, has the ability to overturn them by issuing new orders.

What is happening in Wisconsin, and what happened in NC, is the GOP is trying to get rid of powers of the office that they enjoyed when they had it.

THAT is what is fundamentally undemocratic. To not understand that is to not appreciate how democracy functions.

Wisconsin had a vote for a new governor. The voters did NOT vote for a new governor, but with fewer powers than the last one. That idea is not on the ballot. They voted to replace the current governor with a new one.   

The Wisconsin legislature is rolling back a decision just made by the PEOPLE of Wisconsin.
  
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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin
Reply #14 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 5:14pm
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Queshank wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:07pm:
With days left in office, President Obama ushers in dozens of policies. But will they stay seated? - WaPo - 1/14/17

In the past week, the Obama administration overturned a decades­-old policy toward Cuban immigrants, forged two major agreements to address racial bias in big-city police departments and approved an unexpected cut in mortgage insurance premiums for hundreds of thousands of low-income and first-time home buyers.

Officials even made time, after years of lobbying, to add the rusty patched bumble bee to the list of endangered species.

In the final days before President Obama leaves office, administration officials are rushing to complete dozens of tasks that will affect millions of lives and solidify the president’s imprint on history. But in many cases, their permanence is uncertain, and President-elect Donald Trump is already pledging to undo some of them after taking office.

“He is clearly using executive power aggressively and trying to do as much as possible in his final days,” Princeton University history and public affairs professor Julian Zelizer said in an email. “It is clear that a president who was once reluctant to use the power of his own office has changed his heart, especially now that he sees a radically conservative Congress and Republican president-elect are getting ready to dismantle much of what he has done.”


Obama's Legacy: Here's A Raft Of Executive Actions Trump May Target - Forbes - Jan 16, 2017

Election year 2016 was no time for Obama to pursue a legislative agenda for Congress to ignore, thus his “We Can’t Wait” campaign and the touting of executive action on gun control, Syrian refugees, closing Guantanamo, global warming, income inequality and other issues.

And as the year progressed, we saw a rash of new agency regulations.

Despite a letter warning against last minute regulation from House leadership, it's been like a swarm of hornets.

Obama's intended legacy--that of implementing the progressive agenda of more federal power, the rule of unelected experts, and middle-class dependency on the state--presumably depended upon a Clinton victory. But after Mr. Trump's inauguration, we’ll find out.

Obama calculates, very likely correctly, that many of his initiatives will stick, in the same way Obamacare may get tweaked and renamed rather than repealed.

If executive action is sticky, will Democrats remain OK with the pen and phone, or will they rediscover the separation of powers? Will they be inclined to work with the Republican majority on partial restoration of the Constitution’s checks and balances, as promised in Speaker Paul Ryan’s A Better Way?


Queshank

As several people have just stated, your example has nothing to do with Wisconsin. It's obvious you are once again (no surprise) misrepresenting the actions of someone else and presenting them as somehow equivalent, to excuse the actions of someone you support.
  

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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #15 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 5:48pm
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What happened is that Scott Walker lost (Tell Bert that yes, it’s indeed over for Scott Walker) and this is Walker’s middle finger to the voters on the way out. Hopefully it will have negative ramifications for the GOP in 2020. One prominent Wisconsin Republican donor has already expressed outrage so it may be quite plausible.
  
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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #16 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:18pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
Your examples cover executive actions that can be undone by the next incoming executive.  In Wisconsin, they are rewriting the rules so that the next incoming executive CAN'T undo them.


And?

The executive branch rewrites rules that the executive branch can then undo.

The legislative branch rewrites rules that the legislative branch can then undo.

What you're implying with this thread, like you always do with gerrymandering, is a lie.  That the Republicans are especially evil and anti Democratic.  When in fact, the Democrats do exactly the same thing when they have power.  Gerrymander.  Attempt to block opposing party electees from changing their things.  The lie Democrats tell themselves as when THEIR guy does it, he's a champion of the People and a hero of democracy.  When the other team does it they're evil and anti democracy.

Did Obama try to ignore and overrule the will of the people by blocking the incoming president from making moves on issues he considers important?

Yes.

And that's what the Republican legislatures are doing as well.  Can the people of Wisconsin change what they're doing at any time?  Yes.

Tell me FC. Will you be as outraged when the Democratic majority in the House tries to curtail Trump's power?  Will you stay consistent?

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #17 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:20pm
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jus_cogens2 wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 5:01pm:
This is frankly not true at all, and misunderstands the role of executive orders.

It would be the same if Obama adopted executive orders that prohibited future presidents from adopting them, or constrained presidential power in any way.

Obama's E.O.s did not and could not do so, because they aren't legislation. They simply advanced policies that the administration wanted to preserve, but the next administration, as we've seen, has the ability to overturn them by issuing new orders.

What is happening in Wisconsin, and what happened in NC, is the GOP is trying to get rid of powers of the office that they enjoyed when they had it.

THAT is what is fundamentally undemocratic. To not understand that is to not appreciate how democracy functions.

Wisconsin had a vote for a new governor. The voters did NOT vote for a new governor, but with fewer powers than the last one. That idea is not on the ballot. They voted to replace the current governor with a new one.   

The Wisconsin legislature is rolling back a decision just made by the PEOPLE of Wisconsin.


The people of Wisconsin also voted in the Republican legislature.

That's the flaw in your screed.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #18 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:27pm
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Queshank wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:20pm:
The people of Wisconsin also voted in the Republican legislature.

That's the flaw in your screed.

Queshank


The delegates they most recently voted for weren't even seated yet. Does their previous vote override their most recent?


Late edit: I see the state legislature didn't change much so there's that. Still strikes me as a blatant power grab. Did Walker complain he had too much work while he served?   
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:34pm by Mojo-Jojo »  

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Re: what's going on in Wisconsin?
Reply #19 - Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:35pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Dec 6th, 2018 at 6:27pm:
The delegates they most recently voted for weren't even seated yet. Does their previous vote override their most recent?


Late edit: I see the state legislature didn't change much so there's that. Still strikes me as a blatant power grab. Did Walker complain he had too much work while he served?   


Are you suggesting the incoming Republican legislature is going to disapprove of the prior state assembly's work?

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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