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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anyone else believe that what is (Read 998 times)
Fiddler
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #10 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:07am
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Abe wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:44am:
In the end it won't matter since if Trump fails, his presidency is over. If he wins he still falls short of fulfilling his cornerstone promise and my instinct tells me he isn't getting reelected anyway.


I don't think Trump will run in 2020.  You can tell that he's frustrated and bored shitless.  At this point he's just trying to keep his family out of jail.

Abe wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:44am:
Secure the damned border and let's move on.


Sure.. but a border length wall is f'king stupid. 

We know that the vast majority of drugs are coming in at border entry points or sea ports ..even drones.. and not packed in across the desert .. We know that most undocumented are allowed in and overstay their visas..

Technology is a more cost effective means of patrolling the border.  It's expandable.. It's up-gradable.. It's proven effective..

  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #11 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:15am
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Fiddler wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 8:55am:
Honey.. It's probably best if you don't talk so much..  It remove any doubt of your hyper-partisan ignorance ...


Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis
-The Ironically Named "American Thinker" September 28, 2008





Why don't you give us your own thoughts on this?  Don't you have any?
  
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Abe
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #12 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:15am
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Fiddler wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:07am:
I don't think Trump will run in 2020.  You can tell that he's frustrated and bored shitless.  At this point he's just trying to keep his family out of jail.


Sure.. but a border length wall is f'king stupid. 

We know that the vast majority of drugs are coming in at border entry points or sea ports ..even drones.. and not packed in across the desert .. We know that most undocumented are allowed in and overstay their visas..

Technology is a more cost effective means of patrolling the border.  It's expandable.. It's up-gradable.. It's proven effective..




I actually agree with you and said that on another board...that being he may decide not to run. I also think if he does run, he won't be reelected assuming of course all things remain "stat".

I also agree that the wall doesn't need to be the entire length just enough to create choke points that can be monitored. So many ways to secure it which is why both sides should come together and do it.

We both know the nation is too divided for that to happen. Sad really because no matter which side one is on, we all lose when the border isn't secure.
  

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crepe05
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #13 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:18am
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petep wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:27am:
Yes crepe. They are a creative lot. Some of my favorites

Liberal
Progressive
Common sense gun laws
Manufacturered crisis
Voter suppression


And they hate voter ID.
  
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #14 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:19am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:54am:
It's a "manufactured crisis" in that the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been declining for years, now, the crime rate among immigrants is relatively low, and Trump frittered away 2 years of republican govt domination without getting this done.  NOW it's a crisis?  No.  It's only a crisis for his reelection prospects.


Fake news by fc

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/crime/329589-the-tru...

There should be zero crime by illegals, as they should not be here in first place.
  
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crepe05
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #15 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:23am
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Fiddler wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:07am:
I don't think Trump will run in 2020.  You can tell that he's frustrated and bored shitless.  At this point he's just trying to keep his family out of jail.


Sure.. but a border length wall is f'king stupid. 

We know that the vast majority of drugs are coming in at border entry points or sea ports ..even drones.. and not packed in across the desert .. We know that most undocumented are allowed in and overstay their visas..

Technology is a more cost effective means of patrolling the border.  It's expandable.. It's up-gradable.. It's proven effective..



And yet technology can't make any arrests, capture any illegals, tase anyone, or get border agents to the area quickly.  That must be why icky-poo dems like it so much.
Ineffective for stopping anyone crossing into the U.S. illegally.
  
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crepe05
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #16 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:26am
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Abe wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:44am:
You have a point to a degree. The bigger point is that those on the democratic side are clearly in opposition now more due to despising Trump than the measly 5.7 billion. In fact they should give it to him since it won't build the entire wall and it would force him to come back for more at a later date.

If both sides were smart they would agree on a steel fence and both claim victory for now. We can get into the minutia of it all and why they should or shouldn't agree but my point for now is that there is a way out for both sides.

As to the title, Snopes gave it to the article, not me and I agree to portray it solely as that is a bit deceptive but the rest of the article makes the better point that both sides seemingly want or wanted something more done than what exists and they should be working together to achieve it. You and I both know we could compare dueling articles and sound-byte clips all day and it won't change where we are right now.

In the end it won't matter since if Trump fails, his presidency is over. If he wins he still falls short of fulfilling his cornerstone promise and my instinct tells me he isn't getting reelected anyway. Secure the damned border and let's move on.


What did your "instinct" tell you about the last Presidential election?
  
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #17 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:29am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:54am:
It's a "manufactured crisis" in that the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been declining for years, now, the crime rate among immigrants is relatively low, and Trump frittered away 2 years of republican govt domination without getting this done.  NOW it's a crisis?  No.  It's only a crisis for his reelection prospects.


Exacty. If there were an actual crisis, DHS would have spelled it out in its budget request. Or it would have appeared in the administration's annual briefing on national security, or in any number of government documents and briefings given throughout the year on prioty secuirty issues.

It never appeared because of all the reasons you laid out. Which is why every single defense of the childish, purely political wall demand, have been based on outright lies.

Terrorists coming across the border: lie

Illegals bringing in more crime: lie

Former Presidents telling Trump to build the wall: lie

There has already been bipartisan agreement to give DHS everything it needs for effective border security. Trump rejected it, starting a shutdown that is a far greater security risk to our country than the record low numbers of illegal migrants or asylum seeking refugees could ever pose. All just to fuel his 2020 campaign pitch to continue to co-copt and play the racism of his supporters.

That's it.
  
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #18 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:36am
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jus_cogens2 wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:29am:
Exacty. If there were an actual crisis, DHS would have spelled it out in its budget request. Or it would have appeared in the administration's annual briefing on national security, or in any number of government documents and briefings given throughout the year on prioty secuirty issues.

It never appeared because of all the reasons you laid out. Which is why every single defense of the childish, purely political wall demand, have been based on outright lies.

Terrorists coming across the border: lie

Illegals bringing in more crime: lie

Former Presidents telling Trump to build the wall: lie

There has already been bipartisan agreement to give DHS everything it needs for effective border security. Trump rejected it, starting a shutdown that is a far greater security risk to our country than the record low numbers of illegal migrants or asylum seeking refugees could ever pose. All just to fuel his 2020 campaign pitch to continue to co-copt and play the racism of his supporters.

That's it.


Tell that to the Angel parents/siblings/friends who mourn for their loved ones killed by illegals.
  
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #19 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:37am
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crepe05 wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 10:23am:
And yet technology can't make any arrests, capture any illegals, tase anyone, or get border agents to the area quickly.  That must be why icky-poo dems like it so much.
Ineffective for stopping anyone crossing into the U.S. illegally.


You have it exactly backwards.  A "wall" is what "can't make any arrests, capture any illegals, tase anyone, or get border agents to the area quickly".  Technology actually enables and supports all of these operations.
  

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