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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anyone else believe that what is (Read 696 times)
Abe
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #40 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:36pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:31pm:
It's a refugee crisis (yes, an actual "crisis") that is driving the caravans.  Significant numbers of people are so fearful for their lives and families that they are willing to drop everything and leave.  They hear of a caravan, and all of the sudden a very perilous journey becomes marginally safer.  Safety through numbers.

They get some help along the way, but it's from food donations by Mexicans, not campaign funds from democrats.


Okay. Even so, does that mean they have the right to illegally cross a border and ask for asylum which was their intent, and if you say yes which no doubt you will, at what point do we say enough. Once here who pays for them? They all find jobs immediately?

And if I was to believe you that it is a crisis then I guess they should NOT be saying that Trump manufactured it after you just explained why it exists. Undecided In fact by default that many people at our border is a crisis and Trump has every right to keep them out while they have no right to break in illegally.

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/group-organizing-caravan-migrants-issued...

By the way, how many you taking in and

I would add as well you say they hear of a caravan and join. Why is that? Why don't those groups in Mexico organizing them inform them that it's not likely they are going to get that asylum that easily.

Instead we get threats of more and bigger caravans forming. I'm not indifferent to their plight but there is a right way and wrong way to enter a country.

If I'm poor and need cash should I bust your door down and rob you and then say.."but I'm poor". Maybe not the best analogy but serves to make the point.
.
« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:46pm by Abe »  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #41 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:43pm
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Abe wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:27pm:
and just end up swapping dueling links.


But the difference is that I link to facts ..  Wink
  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #42 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:47pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:43pm:
But the difference is that I link to facts ..  Wink


Glad you feel Snopes isn't factual. I actually agree. It's not. It a left run fact checker...and they agreed there was organization, How about that. Wink


By the way, you didn't present any facts. Cool


Fiddler wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:21pm:
LMAO ..  Grin      B U L L S H I T .. .!!!


That's not a fact. That's an opinion.  Grin Wink

I proved my point that it was organized.  Wink
« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:54pm by Abe »  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #43 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:49pm
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Abe wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:36pm:
Okay. Even so, does that mean they have the right to illegally cross a border and ask for asylum which was their intent, and if you say yes which no doubt you will, at what point do we say enough. Once here who pays for them? They all find jobs immediately?

And if I was to believe you that it is a crisis then I guess they should NOT be saying that Trump manufactured it after you just explained why it exists. Undecided In fact by default that many people at our border is a crisis and Trump has every right to keep them out while they have no right to break in illegally.

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/group-organizing-caravan-migrants-issued...

By the way, how many you taking in and agreeing to personally sponsor until they get on their feet. Right...none. Roll Eyes


The crisis is the refugee wave, but Trump says the crisis is the illegal immigrants crossing the border.  A refugee applying for asylum isn't an illegal immigrant -- it's someone applying to be a legal immigrant.  Actual illegal immigration is down, and has been for some time.

In a sense, the refugee wave is itself a "manufactured crisis", in that US policies led directly to this situation.  We interfered with the three usual-suspect-countries (Guatamala, Honduras, El Salvador) for decades, deposing democratically elected leaders, training their secret police death squads, and bankrolling puppet governments, all in the name of Dole Fruit and friends.  On top of that, we took in an earlier wave of migrants, inadvertently trained them in organized crime (MS-13 started in LA), and deported them home to destabilize their native lands.

But these weren't Trump policies.  These decisions went back for decades.  He's off the hook for that.
  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #44 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:51pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:49pm:
The crisis is the refugee wave, but Trump says the crisis is the illegal immigrants crossing the border.  A refugee applying for asylum isn't an illegal immigrant -- it's someone applying to be a legal immigrant.  Actual illegal immigration is down, and has been for some time.

In a sense, the refugee wave is itself a "manufactured crisis", in that US policies led directly to this situation.  We interfered with the three usual-suspect-countries (Guatamala, Honduras, El Salvador) for decades, deposing democratically elected leaders, training their secret police death squads, and bankrolling puppet governments, all in the name of Dole Fruit and friends.  On top of that, we took in an earlier wave of migrants, inadvertently trained them in organized crime (MS-13 started in LA), and deported them home to destabilize their native lands.

But these weren't Trump policies.  These decisions went back for decades.  He's off the hook for that.



See now you are getting off onto tangents that are quite true but slightly off the point being made as to whether they were organized or not. We can get into why they are doing what they are doing but it doesn't really change the fact that they are/were getting help. So to say it was all spontaneous is a bit disingenuous.

If they are being religiously or politically persecuted that may qualify one for asylum. Being poor and wanting a better life is not grounds for asylum.
  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #45 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:56pm
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I'm not saying they were "spontaneous".  Indeed, the fact that they form repeatedly means the conditions in which they form are persistent and unavoidable.  They probably get the news that it's very difficult to be granted legal asylum.  They probably hear that most caravans break up long before they get to the US border.  And they certainly know that they are putting themselves at significant risk just in undertaking the journey.

But they're coming anyway.  That's how bad it is down there.  A wall isn't going to stop that.
  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #46 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 1:01pm
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Abe wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 12:47pm:
I proved my point that it was organized.


You proved nothing..  You said it was ..

Abe wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 11:27am:
Big money from the left manufactured the caravans



  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #47 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 1:48pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 11:17am:
We have barriers along parts of the border, where they are effective.  We have other monitoring practices covering the other parts of the border, and backing up the existing fences.  Together, they have led to a years-long decline in the US illegal immigrant population.  So where is the "crisis"?


And now we have other places along our borderwhere illegals are attempting to cross, and we need to provide ways to stop them and to stop theml quickly.  The "crisis" is that large groups of people are organizing to come here without being vetted.  Do you ever wonder why that is?  Why now?

I think that it is because the illegals realize that we now have a POTUS who is serious about not allowing illegal entry to the U.S.  Previously, it seems to have been just more babble but nothing getting accomplished.  Now our POTUS is serious about stopping illegal entry.
  
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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #48 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 1:53pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
You proved nothing..  You said it was ..





Fair point. I did but can you say beyond any doubt that there was no money from left leaning groups? I'm not going to fall into the blame Soros group other than to say, I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

What I did prove is that they were funded and it didn't just happen. Wink


  

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Re: Anyone else believe that what is
Reply #49 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 2:04pm
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Now let's follow the money.

Pueblo Sin Fronteras



Pueblo Sin Fronteras was formed in the early 2000s. The group builds shelters for refugees on the trek north to the Mexican-American border and provides legal counsel to them. Activists affiliated with the group are present in the United States, where the organization actively raises funds and organizes protest actions against U.S. immigration policy.  The organization is a member organization of the National Day Laborer Organizing Network.

Now Fiddler would those activist group against immigration policy be on the right or left? Yes the left.

Lets us continue....


The National Day Laborer Organizing Network (NDLON) is an American organization dedicated to improving the lives of day laborers. It was founded in Northridge, California in July 2001 and is based in Los Angeles, California.

In August 9, 2006 after the largest immigration rights demonstrations happened, the AFL-CIO signed an agreement to work together with NDLON to improve the working conditions of immigrant day laborers


Shall we go on? Yes let's do....

The NDLON's member organizations include the following:

American Friends Service Committee (Newark, NJ)
Casa Freehold (Freehold, NJ)
CASA Latina (Seattle, WA)
CASA of Maryland (Silver Spring, MD)
Central American Resource Center (Los Angeles, CA)
Centro Cultural (Cornelius, OR)
Centro Laboral de Graton (Graton, CA)
Centro Legal de la Raza (Oakland, CA)
Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of L.A. (Los Angeles, CA)
Centro Humanitario Para Los Trabajadores (Denver, CO)
CRECEN/America Para Todos (Houston, TX)
El Centro de Hospitalidad (Staten Island, NY)
Gulfton Area Neighborhood Organization – CARECEN (Houston, TX)
Hispanic Resource Center (Mamaroneck, NY)
Iglesia San Pedro (Fallbrooks, CA)
Instituto de Educacion Popular del Sur de California (IDEPSCA) (Los Angeles, CA)
Jornaleros Unidos de Freehold (Freehold, NJ)
La Raza Centro Legal (San Francisco, CA)
Malibu Community Labor Exchange (Malibu, CA)
Neighbors Link (Mount Kisco, NY)
Pomona Economic opportunity Center -PEOC (Pomona, CA)
Proyecto de los Trabajadores Latino Americanos (Brooklyn, NY)
Tenants and Workers United (Falls Church,VA)
The Day Worker Center at Mountain View (Mountain View, CA)
The Hispanic Westchester Coalition (White Plains, NY)
Tonatierra (Phoenix, AZ)
Union Latina de Chicago (Chicago, IL)
United Community of Westchester (NY)
Voces de la Frontera (Milwaukee, WI)
VOZ (Portland, OR)
WeCount! (Miami, FL)
Wind of the Spirit/Viento del Espiritu (Morristown, NJ)
Workers Defense Project (Austin, TX)
Workplace Project (Long Island, NY)
Legal Aid Justice Center - Immigrant Advocacy Program (Virginia)
Congreso de Jornaleros de Nueva Orleans (New Orleans, LA)
Stamford Partnership (Stamford, CT)
North Carolina Occupational Safety and Health Project (North Carolina)
Hispanic Center of Ossining (Ossining, NY)
Pueblo Sin Fronteras (Irving, TX)

Startring to look like lots of money from left leaning organizations. Smiley Wink

Bottom line is whomever funded them certainly wasn't from the "right"
  

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