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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stumped!! (Read 1,139 times)
Running Deer
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #10 - Jan 29th, 2019 at 3:34pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jan 28th, 2019 at 7:20pm:
John 3:3
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again 2 he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


The Kingdom of God is within you.  Luke 17:21.  You don't go there when you die.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #11 - Jan 29th, 2019 at 7:47pm
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Running Deer wrote on Jan 29th, 2019 at 3:34pm:
The Kingdom of God is within you.  Luke 17:21.  You don't go there when you die.


Revelation 21 New International Version (NIV)
A New Heaven and a New Earth
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #12 - Jan 29th, 2019 at 7:51pm
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In Luke 17:20–21, Jesus says, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you” (NKJV). The context of Jesus’ statement is a question put to Him by His Pharisee detractors who had asked when the kingdom of God would come (verse 20).

Jesus’ answer was that the kingdom of God was not coming in the manner the Pharisees were expecting. The kingdom would not be inaugurated with spectacle or splendor; there would be no great and magnificent leader who staked out a geographical claim and routed the Romans; rather, the kingdom would come silently and unseen, much as leaven works in a batch of dough (see Matthew 13:33). In fact, Jesus says, the kingdom had already begun, right under the Pharisees’ noses. God was ruling in the hearts of some people, and the King Himself was standing among them, although the Pharisees were oblivious to that fact.

Various translations render the Greek of Luke 17:21 various ways. The phrase translated “within you” in the KJV and NKJV is translated as “in your midst” in the NIV, NASB, and NET; “among you” in the NLT and HCSB; and “in the midst of you” in the ESV. Earlier versions of the NIV had “within you” with a marginal note suggesting “among you.” There is obviously a difference between saying “the kingdom of God is within you” and “the kingdom of God is among you.”

“Within you” comes off as an unfavorable translation, seeing that Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees at the time. Jesus was surely not saying that the kingdom of God resided within the Pharisees’ hearts. The Pharisees opposed Jesus and had no relationship with God. Jesus in other places denounced them as “whitewashed tombs” and “hypocrites” (Matthew 23:27).

The better translation would be “in your midst” or “among you.” Jesus was telling the Pharisees that He brought the kingdom of God to earth. Jesus’ presence in their midst gave them a taste of the kingdom life, as attested by the miracles that Jesus performed. Elsewhere, Jesus mentions His miracles as definitive proof of the kingdom: “If I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you” (Luke 11:20).

https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-of-God-within-you.html
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #13 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 3:39pm
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You posted two quotes, neither of which support the idea that the Kingdom of God is a place where your ghost goes when you die.  Do you understand how to make a claim and support it with arguments?
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #14 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 6:49pm
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CoolRunning Deer wrote on Jan 30th, 2019 at 3:39pm:
You posted two quotes, neither of which support the idea that the Kingdom of God is a place where your ghost goes when you die.  Do you understand how to make a claim and support it with arguments?
Where does the Bible say we will be ghost?  Do you grasp that I am spoon feeding you scriptures about what the Bible says about Heaven and Hell?  It appears you can not read and understand scripture.  You made claims that are incorrect and I try with actual scripture that discusses these things.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #15 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 6:53pm
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The Bible speaks about resurrected bodies, Jesus returned with a resurrected body, he ate with them, they were able to touch him...  This gives us a view of our new bodies spoken about in scripture.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #16 - Jan 31st, 2019 at 7:13pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jan 30th, 2019 at 6:49pm:
Where does the Bible say we will be ghost?


Nowhere, but your concept of a soul is just a ghost.

Quote:
Do you grasp that I am spoon feeding you scriptures about what the Bible says about Heaven and Hell?


You don't get it.  Here's what I said:

BTW, the Bible does not teach that all the non-Christians will go to hell when they die.  The Bible doesn't have a coherent explanation of what happens after death; different authors pose different explanations.

You have not posted a quote saying that all non-Christians go to Hell when they die.  You've tried posting a couple of different things, but none of them actually support the idea that all the non-Christians are going to burn in Hell forever.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #17 - Feb 1st, 2019 at 6:19am
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Running Deer wrote on Jan 31st, 2019 at 7:13pm:
Nowhere, but your concept of a soul is just a ghost.


You don't get it.  Here's what I said:

BTW, the Bible does not teach that all the non-Christians will go to hell when they die.  The Bible doesn't have a coherent explanation of what happens after death; different authors pose different explanations.

You have not posted a quote saying that all non-Christians go to Hell when they die.  You've tried posting a couple of different things, but none of them actually support the idea that all the non-Christians are going to burn in Hell forever.

I have, you prefer to ignore them.  The verses have made it very clear why it was necessary for Jesus to die.  Without his blood covering for our sins, no one will enter heaven.  That means the other option is hell.  I gave you plenty of scriptures that are clear that those who reject the sacrifice of Jesus, will face the wrath of God, for breaking his law, in he'll.

The question I have is why would you reject his free gift paid for by the blood of his son, Jesus Christ?
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #18 - Feb 1st, 2019 at 6:50am
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If there is no hell, there would be no need for a Savior.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Stumped!!
Reply #19 - Feb 2nd, 2019 at 11:52am
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Seawolf wrote on Feb 1st, 2019 at 6:19am:
I have, you prefer to ignore them.  The verses have made it very clear why it was necessary for Jesus to die.  Without his blood covering for our sins, no one will enter heaven.  That means the other option is hell.  I gave you plenty of scriptures that are clear that those who reject the sacrifice of Jesus, will face the wrath of God, for breaking his law, in he'll.

The question I have is why would you reject his free gift paid for by the blood of his son, Jesus Christ?


Theology is too deep for an internet forum like this.  But the answer to your question is "he is not of the elect."
  

non sumus stulti
but
accidit stercore
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