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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit (Read 585 times)
Fiddler
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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #10 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:16pm
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petep wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
I think you need to read up on some stats. Each day there are rapes, killings etc. if your data is it has not happened to you therefore it does not happen so there is no need for self defense then you fit well in the fids and wads camp.



"The odds of something bad happening are simply much higher than the odds of something "home-protection-y" happening. "


Bears repeating...  A gun is much more likely to be involved in an accident than to be use in self-defense..


Harvard Injury Control Research Center
[url=]Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use[/url]

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense

We use epidemiological theory to explain why the “false positive” problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the incidence of rare diseases or rare phenomena such as self-defense gun use.  We then try to validate the claims of many millions of annual self-defense uses against available evidence.  We find that the claim of many millions of annual self-defense gun uses by American citizens is invalid.

Hemenway, David.  Survey research and self-defense gun use: An explanation of extreme overestimates.  Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology.  1997; 87:1430-1445.

Hemenway, David.  The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun uses: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events.  Chance (American Statistical Association).  1997; 10:6-10.

Cook, Philip J; Ludwig, Jens; Hemenway, David.  The gun debate’s new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year?  Journal of Policy Analysis and Management.  1997; 16:463-469.

4. Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal

We analyzed data from two national random-digit-dial surveys conducted under the auspices of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.  Criminal court judges who read the self-reported accounts of the purported self-defense gun use rated a majority as being illegal, even assuming that the respondent had a permit to own and to carry a gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly from his own perspective.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah.  Gun use in the United States: Results from two national surveys.  Injury Prevention.  2000; 6:263-267.

5. Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense

Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Center, we examined the extent and nature of offensive gun use.  We found that firearms are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense.  All reported cases of criminal gun use, as well as many of the so-called self-defense gun uses, appear to be socially undesirable.

Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah.  The relative frequency of offensive and defensive gun use: Results of a national survey.  Violence and Victims.  2000; 15:257-272.

6. Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime

Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, we investigated how and when guns are used in the home.  We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime; other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns.

Azrael, Deborah R; Hemenway, David.  In the safety of your own home: Results from a national survey of gun use at home.  Social Science and Medicine.  2000; 50:285-91.

7. Adolescents are far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use one in self-defense

We analyzed data from a telephone survey of 5,800 California adolescents aged 12-17 years, which asked questions about gun threats against and self-defense gun use by these young people.  We found that these young people were far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use a gun in self-defense, and most of the reported self-defense gun uses were hostile interactions between armed adolescents.  Males, smokers, binge drinkers, those who threatened others and whose parents were less likely to know their whereabouts were more likely both to be threatened with a gun and to use a gun in self-defense.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew.  Gun threats against and self-defense gun use by California adolescents.  Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine.  2004; 158:395-400.

9-10. Few criminals are shot by decent law-abiding citizens

Using data from surveys of detainees in six jails from around the nation, we worked with a prison physician to determine whether criminals seek hospital medical care when they are shot.  Criminals almost always go to the hospital when they are shot.  To believe fully the claims of millions of self-defense gun uses each year would mean believing that decent law-abiding citizens shot hundreds of thousands of criminals.  But the data from emergency departments belie this claim, unless hundreds of thousands of wounded criminals are afraid to seek medical care.  But virtually all criminals who have been shot went to the hospital, and can describe in detail what happened there.

May, John P; Hemenway, David. Oen, Roger; Pitts, Khalid R.  Medical Care Solicitation by Criminals with Gunshot Wound Injuries: A Survey of Washington DC Jail Detainees.  Journal of Trauma.  2
  

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Fiddler
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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #11 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:17pm
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11. Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions

Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes, and women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases).  Victims using a gun were no less likely to be injured after taking protective action than victims using other forms of protective action.  Compared to other protective actions, the National Crime Victimization Surveys provide little evidence that self-defense gun use is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss.

This article helps provide accurate information concerning self-defense gun use.   It shows that many of the claims about the benefits of gun ownership are largely myths.

Hemenway D, Solnick SJ.  The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: Evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007-2011.  Preventive Medicine.  2015; 79: 22-27.
  

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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #12 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:18pm
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Homosexual sex is riskier than heterosexual sex.

Sugar and refined carbohydrates lead to an incredible amount of health problems in this country.

Use of alcohol is responsible for an incredible amount of death, injury, and divorce.

Skiing is far more dangerous than the very inexpensive hobby of not skiing.

Does the government belong in the home regulating dangerous activities or not?
  

If FaceBook memes and twitter accounts can sway elections, then either accept it as the new reality or let's figure out a new form of government. Because democracy is therefore unfit in the modern age.
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forgotten centrist
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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #13 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:18pm
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petep wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
Fc, your third paragraph speaks volumes. In a bad way. Show off??

When I moved to Los Angeles I took no firearms because of la laws at the time. I was robbed three times my first three weeks there. On one occasion there is no doubt if I were a woman or weaker I would have been killed. I was 22 at the time and had finished 4 years of college boxing. The guy that I got (who was in my home) when the police brought me down to station said he had been arrested 28 times since he was 14 and a warrant was out for him last 6 months on a homicide

I think you need to read up on some stats. Each day there are rapes, killings etc. if your data is it has not happened to you therefore it does not happen so there is no need for self defense then you fit well in the fids and wads camp.



Yes, there are cases where guns wielded at home have saved lives, warded off criminals, and solved problems.

There are also cases where guns wielded at home have led to accidental deaths, enabled unstable people to kill, made suicide tragically easy, and created problems.

We can go tit for tat with anecdotes.  But the better approach is to study the statistics and find out what is really going on.  Maybe gun ownership in that neighborhood you lived in, without children underfoot, was a good thing.  There will certainly be cases like that.  But for significantly more cases, gun ownership brings more trouble than help.
  

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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #14 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:22pm
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Fiddler wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:17pm:
It shows that many of the claims about the benefits of gun ownership are largely myths.

Isn't this a question of training and experience?

I have a far higher likelihood of successfully using a gun to defend myself than somebody with no experience with firearms.

Sadly, I think many gun owners purchase a firearm and don't take the time to learn how to use one properly.

Their incompetence should have no bearing on my rights.

That's like shutting down the internet because of fake news and incompetent journalists.
  

If FaceBook memes and twitter accounts can sway elections, then either accept it as the new reality or let's figure out a new form of government. Because democracy is therefore unfit in the modern age.
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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #15 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:25pm
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petep wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:01pm:
then you fit well in the fids and wads camp.



I'm a gun owner...not a gun nut.  I grew up around guns and hunting. It's likely that I'd out-shoot you with a rifle and very likely with a shotgun.


In a reply to Archie...
Fiddler wrote on Jul 22nd, 2015 at 3:13pm:
Is measuring dicks what you gun guys do when you're not drinking or shooting?� Ok then.. .

I was given a bolt action J.C. Higgins .22 rifle when I was 10 and bought a Winchester 94 30-30 in my early teens.� Still own both.� I use to bird hunt.� My Grandfather trained hunting dogs and I spent a good deal of time in my teens, 20s, 30s and 40s hunting with him and my Dad. Used a double barrel Stevens at the time, later my Grandfather gave me his Browning A5.� I hunted deer, boar, geese, dove and quail.

Handguns? Sure. .22 Rossi, 38 S&W, Colt 32, Colt .380. ..


Your indoor target scores are simply unimpressive.. Your target just sit still.� Try a moving target.� I'll out shoot you bird hunting.


*zippppp....*









It's clear that you are allowing people with an agenda for your information about gun use..
  

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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #16 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:27pm
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Fiddler wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 1:08pm:
Guns can kill you in three ways: homicide, suicide, and by accident. Owning a gun or having one readily accessible makes all three more likely. One meta-analysis ”found strong evidence for increased odds of suicide among persons with access to firearms compared with those without access and moderate evidence for an attenuated increased odds of homicide victimization when persons with and without access to firearms were compared.” The latter finding is stronger for women, a reminder that guns are also a risk factor for domestic violence.

The same thing is true for accidents. States with more guns see more accidental deaths from firearms, and children ages 5 to 14 are 11 times more likely to be killed with a gun in the US compared to other developed countries, where gun ownership is much less common.

About half of gun accident fatalities happen to people under 25, and some recent analyses suggest that the official count of gun accident deaths among children is understated.

”When 34 injury prevention experts were asked to prioritize home injury hazards for young children, based on frequency, severity, and preventability of the injury, the experts rated access to firearms in the home as the most significant hazard,” Harvard gun expert David Hemenway writes.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that “the absence of guns from children’s homes and communities is the most reliable and effective measure to prevent firearm-related injuries in children and adolescents.”
Link


Well Fiddler, if I were you, I would get rid of my gun now. Because when Trump wins the next election, you will become suicidal.

Smiley
  

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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #17 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:32pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:18pm:
Homosexual sex is riskier than heterosexual sex.

Yes.. for consenting adults


Sugar and refined carbohydrates lead to an incredible amount of health problems in this country.

Sugar is seldom used to rob someone..


Use of alcohol is responsible for an incredible amount of death, injury, and divorce.

And we have Don't drink and drive laws.


Skiing is far more dangerous than the very inexpensive hobby of not skiing.

To the individual skier.


Does the government belong in the home regulating dangerous activities or not?

Perhaps.  Especially when that dangerous activity can be initiated by a child or by an enraged husband.




  

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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #18 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:40pm
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Fiddler wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:17pm:
11. Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions

Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes, and women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases).  Victims using a gun were no less likely to be injured after taking protective action than victims using other forms of protective action.  Compared to other protective actions, the National Crime Victimization Surveys provide little evidence that self-defense gun use is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss.

This article helps provide accurate information concerning self-defense gun use.   It shows that many of the claims about the benefits of gun ownership are largely myths.

Hemenway D, Solnick SJ.  The epidemiology of self-defense gun use: Evidence from the National Crime Victimization Surveys 2007-2011.  Preventive Medicine.  2015; 79: 22-27.



Roll Eyes
The U.S. Department of Justice investigated firearm violence from 1993 through 2011. The report found, “In 2007–2011, about 1 percent of nonfatal violent crime victims used a firearm in self-defense.” Anti-gun zealots attempt to use this statistic to discredit the use of a gun as a viable means of self-defense, and by extension, to discredit gun ownership in general.
But look deeper into the numbers. During that five-year period, the Department of Justice confirmed a total of 338,700 defensive gun uses in both violent attacks and property crimes where a victim was involved. That equals an average of 67,740 defensive gun uses every year. In other words, according to the Justice Department’s own statistics, 67,740 people a year don’t become victims because they own a gun. (I suspect that if more states allowed concealed carry to be widespread, the number of instances of defensive gun uses would be even higher.)
Is it significant that at least 67,740 individuals use a gun in self-defense each year? Well, in 2016, 37,461 people died in motor vehicle accidents in the United States; in 2015, the number was 35,092 people. Mark Rosekind, administrator of the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration (NHTSA), called those road fatalities “an immediate crisis.” If the NHTSA administrator considers it a crisis that approximately 37,000 people are dying annually from car accidents, then saving nearly twice that many people each year through the use of firearms is simply stunning.
In reality, the Department of Justice findings about defensive gun uses are very conservative. A 2013 study ordered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and conducted by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council found that:
Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence... Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million...in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008... On the other hand, some scholars point to a radically lower estimate of only 108,000 annual defensive uses based on the National Crime Victimization Survey...”
The most comprehensive study ever conducted about defensive gun use in the United States was a 1995 survey published by criminologist Gary Kleck in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. This study reported between 2.1 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses every year.
Ultimately, the number of defensive gun uses doesn’t matter much to the anti-gun zealots. Whether the number is 67,000 or 2.5 million or anywhere in between, they’ll do whatever they can to dismiss defensive gun uses as insignificant. They want to focus only on the dead people lying in the street rather than those folks who use a firearm to remain standing.
Reprinted from The Daily Signal
  

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Re: Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit
Reply #19 - Mar 12th, 2019 at 4:35pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:18pm:
Yes, there are cases where guns wielded at home have saved lives, warded off criminals, and solved problems.

There are also cases where guns wielded at home have led to accidental deaths, enabled unstable people to kill, made suicide tragically easy, and created problems.

We can go tit for tat with anecdotes.  But the better approach is to study the statistics and find out what is really going on.  Maybe gun ownership in that neighborhood you lived in, without children underfoot, was a good thing.  There will certainly be cases like that.  But for significantly more cases, gun ownership brings more trouble than help.


Your last paragraph - sentence. Would you agree comparing annual self defensive uses with a gun vs being harmed with your own gun is the relevant stat? If not what is.
  
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