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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Poll
Poll closed Question: Do you think the Russian Gov changed the outcome of 2016?
bars   pie
*** This poll has now closed ***


Yes    
  12 (33.3%)
No    
  23 (63.9%)
Need More Evidence    
  1 (2.8%)




Total votes: 36
« Created by: KSU_Aviator on: Mar 12th, 2019 at 1:19pm »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election (Read 706 times)
Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #40 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:53pm
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Fiddler wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:48pm:
You're in the weeds again .. This below does not say what you want it to say...

"The Russian manipulation of voter and of media through Facebook and Twitter during the 2016 presidential election is undeniable proof of the concept's viability."

What is the "undeniable proof" of the concept's viability?
  

If FaceBook memes and twitter accounts can sway elections, then either accept it as the new reality or let's figure out a new form of government. Because democracy is therefore unfit in the modern age.
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #41 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:54pm
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bump...
  

If FaceBook memes and twitter accounts can sway elections, then either accept it as the new reality or let's figure out a new form of government. Because democracy is therefore unfit in the modern age.
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Fiddler
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #42 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:25pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:53pm:
What is the "undeniable proof" of the concept's viability?


That it happened.  The concept was valid because it happened. 

Voters and the media were manipulated by a massive misinformation campaign financed by the Russian government.

Russia launched a massive social media campaign to sow discord

An indictment that Mueller secured in February charged 13 Russian nationals and three entities with conducting an illegal "information warfare" effort to disrupt the 2016 presidential election and assist Trump’s candidacy. And it offered a detailed timeline of how the plot occurred — saying the scheme took years to carry out, cost millions of dollars and involved dozens of people, some of whom journeyed to the United States or organized political rallies on American soil.

As early as the spring of 2014, an infamous Russian “troll farm” known as the Internet Research Agency — a company tied to a close Putin associate — devised a strategy using fraudulent bank accounts and other fake identify documents to “spread distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general.”

The IRA also started an operation that used Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube to influence the U.S. voting public, mostly through thousands of fake "bot" accounts and misleading advertising, according to the Mueller indictment. For example, IRA trolls produced materials intended to promote pro-Trump and anti-Clinton hashtags on Twitter, including #TrumpTrain, #MAGA and #Hillary4Prison. The alleged trolls also encouraged minority groups either to not vote or to vote for a third-party candidate starting in the latter half of 2016.

More than 80 individuals were allegedly assigned to the team, which “procured and used computer infrastructure, based partly in the United States, to hide the Russian origin of their activities and to avoid detection by U.S. regulators and law enforcement,” the indictment said.



Russians did not hack voting machines.. they did not change vote totals but they did manipulate the media (MSM, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram) and "Some" voters were swayed...else you're saying that propaganda is ineffective 100% of the time.

More from the article
Hackers went after the Democrats

They breached state and county agencies, too


Reading assignment..
Cyberwar: How Russian Hackers and Trolls Helped Elect a President What We Don't, Can't, and Do Know


In context...

Fiddler wrote on Feb 27th, 2019 at 2:00pm:
Some years ago an AI company named Cognea realized that people were more willing to form relationships with virtual sales and support agents than human.  They provided their Fortune 500 customers with artificial agents tweaked to manipulate customers.   The virtual agents they supplied were primitive compared to the not too distant future yet they were extremely effective in manipulating the customers. 

The Russian manipulation of voter and of media through Facebook and Twitter during the 2016 presidential election is undeniable proof of the concept's viability.   

And Q note this part.. AI will be much smarter than the Russians. 





I see nothing I want to change.


  

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KSU_Aviator
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #43 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:27pm
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Fiddler wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:25pm:
That it happened.  The concept was valid because it happened. 

Voters and the media were manipulated by a massive misinformation campaign financed by the Russian government.

Russia launched a massive social media campaign to sow discord

An indictment that Mueller secured in February charged 13 Russian nationals and three entities with conducting an illegal "information warfare" effort to disrupt the 2016 presidential election and assist Trump’s candidacy. And it offered a detailed timeline of how the plot occurred — saying the scheme took years to carry out, cost millions of dollars and involved dozens of people, some of whom journeyed to the United States or organized political rallies on American soil.

As early as the spring of 2014, an infamous Russian “troll farm” known as the Internet Research Agency — a company tied to a close Putin associate — devised a strategy using fraudulent bank accounts and other fake identify documents to “spread distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general.”

The IRA also started an operation that used Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube to influence the U.S. voting public, mostly through thousands of fake "bot" accounts and misleading advertising, according to the Mueller indictment. For example, IRA trolls produced materials intended to promote pro-Trump and anti-Clinton hashtags on Twitter, including #TrumpTrain, #MAGA and #Hillary4Prison. The alleged trolls also encouraged minority groups either to not vote or to vote for a third-party candidate starting in the latter half of 2016.

More than 80 individuals were allegedly assigned to the team, which “procured and used computer infrastructure, based partly in the United States, to hide the Russian origin of their activities and to avoid detection by U.S. regulators and law enforcement,” the indictment said.



Russians did not hack voting machines.. they did not change vote totals but they did manipulate the media (MSM, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram) and "Some" voters were swayed...else you're saying that propaganda is ineffective 100% of the time.

More from the article
Hackers went after the Democrats

They breached state and county agencies, too


Reading assignment..
Cyberwar: How Russian Hackers and Trolls Helped Elect a President What We Don't, Can't, and Do Know


In context...





I see nothing I want to change.




LMAO...dude...c'mon man.
  


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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #44 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:30pm
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Fiddler wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 3:25pm:
That it happened.  The concept was valid because it happened. 

Voters and the media were manipulated by a massive misinformation campaign financed by the Russian government.

Which is it?

That what happened?

That voters were manipulated? Or that the Russians tried to manipulate them?

Because that's an important distinction. And you seem to want to skirt between the two of those very different ideas.

When you wrote about "undeniable proof" that the concept was "viable", you didn't seem to be talking about the concept of trying. You seemed to be talking about the concept of manipulation.

Where is the "undeniable proof" that voters were manipulated?

And if it's the other, that the viability is only in the notion that somebody tried to do it, isn't that a strange thing to say? I tried to run a marathon, and that is undeniable proof that I tried to run a marathon?
  

If FaceBook memes and twitter accounts can sway elections, then either accept it as the new reality or let's figure out a new form of government. Because democracy is therefore unfit in the modern age.
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #45 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 5:08pm
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Fiddler wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 2:33pm:
Of course they did...that much should be obvious.  The extent and the efficacy maybe unknown, perhaps unknowable but what you're doing is attempting to say that propaganda is ineffective 100% of the time.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fiddler, .. you ARE so full of crapola!   Smiley

Okay, Fiddler .. in your reply to 'Rabbit_Reborn', .. please tell us, 'HOW DID THE RUSSIANS SUCCESSFULLY MANIPULATE the VOTERS TO HELP PUT TRUMP INTO OFFICE'?  Smiley        Grin
  

"Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #46 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:19pm
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_ele...

I'll just leave this here.... not that it'll do any good.  I'm not sure cons can read that much here.

  
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Ulysses
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #47 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 12:02am
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stu_gatze wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 11:44am:
Dear Young Leftist Quisling

Blah... blah... blah...


Oh, no, you din't!!!








« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2019 at 12:07am by Ulysses »  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #48 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 12:41am
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Ulysses wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 12:02am:


stu_pidity wrote Today at 10:44am:
Dear Young Leftist Quisling

Blah... blah... blah...

Stu_pidity learned his new word last month. Yay for him.  Might be time for another multisyllabic stab at the thesaurus, show us how smart you are?
  

Q is Omnipotent!
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KSU_Aviator
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Re: Did the Russians change the outcome of 2016 Presidential Election
Reply #49 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 8:26am
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atreyu wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_ele...

I'll just leave this here.... not that it'll do any good.  I'm not sure cons can read that much here.



Did you read it? Because no where in there does it say that Russians changed the outcome of the election. Or was it TLDFR and you just assumed it said that Russians changed the outcome of the election?
  


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