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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do? (Read 772 times)
Luther
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Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:17am
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Let's settle this once and for all Wink


  

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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #1 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:06pm
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Luther wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:17am:
Let's settle this once and for all Wink




They can't, they aren't legal. But, if made legal, they will require more assistance than citizens.

And by can't, I mean legally. There are obviously some that are illegally collecting assistance.
  


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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #2 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:23pm
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They get a lot in effect through indirect means.  The hospital ERs in southern California are crowded 24/7 365 days a year with non-paying illegals getting ordinary health services.  The costs are cost-shifted onto paying americans.
  
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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:34pm
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FYI - https://www.oann.com/

That website has a running total of the cost of illegal immigration in 2019 based on studies from the Federal Gov, Yale and MIT (among others).

Here is the total for the year. https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_welfare_spending_40.html

I'm assuming at least some of what is at OANN is in the US totals. Without doing a deep dive into what OANN numbers are coming from it is hard to say if they get more or less than the average American. But, it looks likely that they are more of a drain.
  


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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #4 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:35pm
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This study is the first in recent years to examine immigrant (legal and illegal) and native welfare use using the Census Bureau's Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP). While its complexity makes it difficult to use, the survey is widely regarded as providing the most accurate picture of welfare participation. The SIPP shows immigrant households use welfare at significantly higher rates than native households, even higher than indicated by other Census surveys.

In 2012, 51 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal or illegal) reported that they used at least one welfare program during the year, compared to 30 percent of native households. Welfare in this study includes Medicaid and cash, food, and housing programs.

Welfare use is high for both new arrivals and well-established immigrants. Of households headed by immigrants who have been in the country for more than two decades, 48 percent access welfare.
  
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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #5 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:48pm
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Arete wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:35pm:
This study is the first in recent years to examine immigrant (legal and illegal) and native welfare use using the Census Bureau's Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP). While its complexity makes it difficult to use, the survey is widely regarded as providing the most accurate picture of welfare participation. The SIPP shows immigrant households use welfare at significantly higher rates than native households, even higher than indicated by other Census surveys.

In 2012, 51 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal or illegal) reported that they used at least one welfare program during the year, compared to 30 percent of native households. Welfare in this study includes Medicaid and cash, food, and housing programs.

Welfare use is high for both new arrivals and well-established immigrants. Of households headed by immigrants who have been in the country for more than two decades, 48 percent access welfare.


That organization (CIS) is known for using questionable and biased methods.

Quote:
The first issue is that CIS counts the welfare use of households, which includes many native-born American citizens, rather than individuals. There might be some good reasons to do this but the immigrant-headed household variable CIS uses is ambiguous, poorly defined, and less used in modern research for those reasons. To CIS’ credit they try to separate out households with children but didn’t separate out American-born spouses. There is debate largely over whether to count the American born children of immigrants as a welfare cost of immigration. If we should count them, shouldn’t we also count the welfare use of grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren of immigrants?  Such a way of counting would obviously produce a negative result but it would also not be informative.

The second issue with the CIS report is that it does not correct for income. Since means-tested welfare programs are designed for those with lower incomes, it makes sense to only compare use rates among those with lower incomes. It is not enlightening to statistically compare the welfare use rates of rich immigrants and Americans like Bill Gates or Warren Buffett to poorer immigrants and Americans as the CIS report does.

The third issue with the CIS report is that they omitted the cash value of welfare benefits consumed by immigrant and native households. CIS only analyzed the use rates for each welfare program but they do not tell you how much welfare was actually consumed.

The fourth issue is that this CIS analysis necessarily excludes the largest portions of the welfare state – Medicare and Social Security.  Social Security and Medicare are not intended for the poor but they are the largest programs in the welfare state. An OECD analysis of immigration’s impact on the U.S. budget found that immigrant net-contributions to Social Security and Medicare from 2007 to 2009 vastly outweigh their net-consumption of means-tested welfare which decreased U.S. government deficits by about 0.03 percent of GDP.
https://www.cato.org/blog/center-immigration-studies-exaggerates-immigrant-welfa...
  

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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #6 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:55pm
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Objective study states the immigrants, legal and not legal, add more to the economy than they drain.

Likely that is in part because if they work here, they pay taxes: payroll, income, sales, etc. But if they are illegal they don't get a tax refund, nor do they get the benefits from payroll taxation. So that alone is a net gain over actual citizens.

Plus they contribute labor to help the economy, usually for very low wages.

  

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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #7 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:59pm
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Ulysses wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:55pm:
Objective study states the immigrants, legal and not legal, add more to the economy than they drain.

Likely that is in part because if they work here, they pay taxes: payroll, income, sales, etc. But if they are illegal they don't get a tax refund, nor do they get the benefits from payroll taxation. So that alone is a net gain over actual citizens.

Plus they contribute labor to help the economy, usually for very low wages.



Except they don't always get paid on the payroll. In fact, illegals can't be paid on the payroll without committing fraud. So no, they can't be more of a contributor to the economy. They must be a drain. Your definition of objective is different than mine.
  


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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #8 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 5:01pm
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KSU_Aviator wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:59pm:
Except they don't always get paid on the payroll. In fact, illegals can't be paid on the payroll without committing fraud. So no, they can't be more of a contributor to the economy. They must be a drain. Your definition of objective is different than mine.

You can contribute to the economy in more ways than by paying payroll taxes.

Their consumption and production adds to the economy, irrespective of the taxes they may or may not pay.
  

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Re: Do Immigrants Use More Forms Of Welfare Than Natives Do?
Reply #9 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 5:04pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 5:01pm:
You can contribute to the economy in more ways than by paying payroll taxes.

Their consumption and production adds to the economy, irrespective of the taxes they may or may not pay.


Yes, but does that offset the degradation of wages? Unlikely.
  


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