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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "Spying Did Occur" (Read 473 times)
Seawolf
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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #20 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:12am
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Greg55_99 wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:04am:
Any evidence of any illegal activities by the two lovebirds?

Any evidence AT ALL about any ILLEGAL spying?

Greg

So let me get this straight, you are ok with Mueller investigating Trump but not Barr investigating what led up to this?  Seems a tad bit hypocritical.  I mean I would think you would be all for more investigations.  Seems to be some paranoia here.
  


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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #21 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:20am
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:12am:
So let me get this straight, you are ok with Mueller investigating Trump but not Barr investigating what led up to this?  Seems a tad bit hypocritical.  I mean I would think you would be all for more investigations.  Seems to be some paranoia here.


Did you forget there's ALREADY an IG investigation going on with this?

Greg
  

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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #22 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:44am
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Greg55_99 wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:20am:
Did you forget there's ALREADY an IG investigation going on with this?

Greg

So!  How many investigations are on going with Trump?  What is one more regarding this issue.  I think you are protesting too much.  If there is nothing to be found then who cares, if not, then we go from there.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #23 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 2:24pm
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Fiddler wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 7:06am:
Sure ..  as much as Trump was 'spied' on..



In what way is he spying? 

forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 10:39am:
The FBI had "spied" on Page before.  He was known to be in frequent contact with Russian agents.  They had an active file on him, long before the Steele dossier.

Trump hired him.  The FBI warned the Trump campaign that Russians might be trying to infiltrate them.  The surveillance was done on Russians communicating with Trump associates.  They were conducting counter-intel.  It was (and is) their job to monitor Russian communications here.  If a Russian agent calls a US citizen, there is no law forcing them to stop surveillance to protect that citizen's rights.  That would defeat the entire purpose of counter-intel!


So sounds like a Yes from you and Fiddler.

Ulysses wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 10:44am:
Then why does the DT side keep accusing the Obama admin of wrongdoing, of unjustified spying on the DT campaign?

Easy. It's DT's modus operandi: accuse your opposition of exactly what  your side is guilty of. Political theater at its most egregious.

Only suckers believe DT.



Are you accusing Trump (without evidence) of spying on a rival party campaign?

Greg55_99 wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 10:45am:
Trump says the spying was "illegal":


https://www.concordmonitor.com/Trump-alleges-there-was--illegal-spying--during-h...

How is going to a judge to obtain a warrant "illegal"?

Greg


Not saying it happened, but one way is to lie about or omit key facts when presenting your case to the judge.

Demos wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 10:58am:
Define "spying" (which is a loaded term with a lot of baggage).

If we're talking about the FISA warrants, then yes, it did occur, and it occurred after a surveillance warrant was applied for and issued.

And as long as we're interested in accuracy, I'm pretty sure Carter Page was no longer on Trump's campaign when the "spying" occurred.


I would define it as actions to follow, track, listen to or watch a person or their private "papers", etc. without their knowledge.

And Carter Page might not have been a part of the campaign, but didn't Manafort have his phone calls surveilled while he was part of the campaign?  I may be wrong about that, but I thought that was the report that was supposed to have "vindicated" Trump on his tower wire taps claim.
  
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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #24 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 4:48pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 2:24pm:
I would define it as actions to follow, track, listen to or watch a person or their private "papers", etc. without their knowledge.

That's reasonable, but again "spying" is a loaded term with some definite negative connotations, which don't necessarily apply to what was done (though I think that is why the administration has used the term).

Quote:
And Carter Page might not have been a part of the campaign, but didn't Manafort have his phone calls surveilled while he was part of the campaign?  I may be wrong about that, but I thought that was the report that was supposed to have "vindicated" Trump on his tower wire taps claim.

The surveillance of Manafort had been off and on since 2014. And he was also reportedly not under surveillance when he, Kushner, etc. met with the Russian lawyer (whatever her name is). (Source)  Based on the reporting, it doesn't look like he was under surveillance while he was actually with the campaign.
  
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wyattstorch2004
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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #25 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 6:25pm
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Demos wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 4:48pm:
That's reasonable, but again "spying" is a loaded term with some definite negative connotations, which don't necessarily apply to what was done (though I think that is why the administration has used the term).


It has negative connotations, but I would say it deserves them.  Whether proper or not, the spied upon party almost necessarily sees it as a bad thing.  Otherwise there would be no need to spy, as it would be easier to simply ask for the info.

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The surveillance of Manafort had been off and on since 2014. And he was also reportedly not under surveillance when he, Kushner, etc. met with the Russian lawyer (whatever her name is). (Source)  Based on the reporting, it doesn't look like he was under surveillance while he was actually with the campaign.


I want to say it is Vesilnitzkaya.  Or something.  I remember being annoyed when typing it many times in older threads.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/paul-manafort-government-wiretapped-fisa...

This article mentions the renewed wiretapping of Manafort in 2016, but their source (not really suprisingly) knew it didn't occur during the famous meeting, but didn't know when it started.

Given the source of the article, I wouldn't be surprised if they really knew the start date, but it didn't fit their narrative.

Anyway, I guess that is what Barr is looking to figure out.  One would think that he has access to that start date already, though.

An interesting story for sure.
  
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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #26 - Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:08pm
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Ulysses wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 4:19am:
How ironic.

Archie calling other posters "dummies"...

Sad.



I am having trouble getting the answer to this problem. Maybe you can help me.

P = NP

In computational complexity theory, P, also known as PTIME or DTIME(nO(1)), is a fundamental complexity class. It contains all decision problems that can be solved by a deterministic Turing machine using a polynomial amount of computation time, or polynomial time.

In computational complexity theory, an NP-complete decision problem is one belonging to both the NP and the NP-hard complexity classes. In this context, NP stands for "nondeterministic polynomial time". The set of NP-complete problems is often denoted by NP-C or NPC. In computational complexity theory, an NP-complete decision problem is one belonging to both the NP and the NP-hard complexity classes. In this context, NP stands for "nondeterministic polynomial time". The set of NP-complete problems is often denoted by NP-C or NPC.

Be nice. Help me out here.

Sad Smiley
  

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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #27 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 1:28am
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We can be pedantic and parse words but people did listen in on the Trump campaign unbeknownst to the campaign. That is spying. The issue is was it warranted.
  




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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #28 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 1:57am
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Archie wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 11:08pm:
I am having trouble getting the answer to this problem. Maybe you can help me.

P = NP

In computational complexity theory, P, also known as PTIME or DTIME(nO(1)), is a fundamental complexity class. It contains all decision problems that can be solved by a deterministic Turing machine using a polynomial amount of computation time, or polynomial time.

In computational complexity theory, an NP-complete decision problem is one belonging to both the NP and the NP-hard complexity classes. In this context, NP stands for "nondeterministic polynomial time". The set of NP-complete problems is often denoted by NP-C or NPC. In computational complexity theory, an NP-complete decision problem is one belonging to both the NP and the NP-hard complexity classes. In this context, NP stands for "nondeterministic polynomial time". The set of NP-complete problems is often denoted by NP-C or NPC.

Be nice. Help me out here.

Sad Smiley


I see.

So what is your problem?

  

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Re: "Spying Did Occur"
Reply #29 - Apr 13th, 2019 at 9:35am
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admin wrote on Apr 12th, 2019 at 1:59am:
- the spying is the FISA warrant scandal - the Democrats involved can't deny spying- the FiSA warrants were to do the spying- and likely more spying beyond those warrants- the Democrats involved claim it was legitimate spying but we know now that the FISA warrants were illegally obtained using Hillarys paid for Russian dossier which is political propaganda and not legitimate intel - there were also no Russians to spy on and no one has even claimed there was anyone - the spying by Democrats on Trump was the most dirty political trick to undermine Trumps campaign and to smear him and destroy his Presidency and it was illegal


This is it in a nutshell. It's basically hitlers rise to power, minus the killing.
  
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