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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is (Read 876 times)
Limey.
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #30 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 2:37pm
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Beryl wrote on Apr 14th, 2019 at 1:33am:
Grin Grin Grin

No. You would never put your loved ones on the NHS.


I do.


No cause for complaint so far; including keeping me alive.

My little girl is in Alder Hey next month, where Alfie Evans was the centre of such a furore recently.

I'd carry her there on my back, barefoot, the place is wonderful.



Edit: in actual fact,  I'll drive her there in my Range Rover but you get the point.

Edit: it's 25 miles,  and my knees aren't what they were pre-Army and pre-parachuting on to concrete by mistake. Plus she's really grown the last year or two. It was a figure of speech.
« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2019 at 2:44pm by Limey. »  

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Ulysses
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #31 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 2:37pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Apr 14th, 2019 at 2:02pm:
Of course it is.  You are attacking me, the person, rather than countering the argument.  It is quintessentially ad hominem.


It isn't one proposal (it is actually 2, now since he just changed and re-released it).  Sure, only the Sanders proposals call for banning most private insurance, but that is not what I am referring to.

To say that a program that is funded by compulsory taxes and provided to people at no cost at the point of enrollment or use would not drastically shrink the individual market and all but eliminate the employer insurance market is unsupported by logic and economics.  It would effectively (hint: that word doesn't mean by force of law, but by force of effect) demolish the vast majority of the private insurance market.

But of course, I already explained this in my last post.

And how about addressing the point that, once this is factored in, support for Medicare for all falls to 37%?


So, you won't do so.  OK. 

And I know you won't be able to support the argument that altering the funding mechanism to a Medicare for all program would actually lead to the US system costing half as much with better quality.  I know you won't be able to because A) it can't be supported and B) every single time I ask someone to on LNF they can't and the thread usually dies.  So I expect much the same here.


Did I call you a name? Did I insult you personally? Not really. I attacked your mode of argument,  your use of memes. Please don't harbor the conceit that you can get away with defective logic by using the ad hominem dodge.

If a portion of the private health insurance market decreases because there is a better alternative, then that is market forces at work. People are not stupid, you know.

And factoring in a false meme isn't very honest, is it?

And yes, I posted convincing evidence that the NHS system covers a similar demographic (white middle class) at 1/2 the cost and twice as good outcomes as the American system. Again, I'm not going to repost it. It is now commonplace knowledge.

  

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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #32 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 2:50pm
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This is not the original study I posted on LNF, but it's a very interesting first person account comparing the NHS with American healthcare:

https://www.businessinsider.com/comparison-uk-nhs-v-us-private-heathcare-2015-1

The final paragraphs:

Quote:
SORRY AMERICA, BUT NHS TREATMENT REALLY IS BETTER OVER ALL

The bottom line: I prefer the NHS to the American private system. It's a little more inconvenient in terms of appointment times, but due to the fact that it is free, has no paperwork, and the treatment on the day is super-fast, the NHS wins. That Rolls Royce is moving at a pretty decent clip.

And, of course, there is the small matter of the fact that the NHS covers everyone equally, whereas Americans get care based on their ability to pay, leaving tens of millions with only minimal access to care. (Obamacare is changing that, but it's leagues behind the NHS if you're comparing them by the standard of universal full-service coverage.)

Americans think they have the best healthcare in the world. Take it from me, a fellow American: They don't.


  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
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Ulysses
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #33 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 2:56pm
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But wait, there's more:

  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #34 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 3:13pm
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NHS holds on to top spot in healthcare survey

The rankings

1   UK
2   Australia
3   Netherlands
4   Norway
5   New Zealand
6   Sweden
7   Switzerland
8   Germany
9   Canada
10 France
11 United States

Source: Mirror, Mirror 2017 report by the Commonwealth Fund
  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #35 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 10:12pm
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Ulysses wrote on Apr 14th, 2019 at 2:37pm:
Did I call you a name? Did I insult you personally? Not really. I attacked your mode of argument,  your use of memes. Please don't harbor the conceit that you can get away with defective logic by using the ad hominem dodge.


You didn't attack the idea of using memes.  You didn't attack a mode of argument.

You attacked me by saying "But I guess I'm not surprised to see you latch onto misleading memes like you have. It's predictable".

This is not a counter to the idea of latching on to misleading memes or being predictable.  This is an attempt to deride me -- rather than the things I have argued.

Textbook ad hominem.

Quote:
If a portion of the private health insurance market decreases because there is a better alternative, then that is market forces at work. People are not stupid, you know.


LOL.  When those people are forced to buy the government "alternative", no, that is not market forces and is also not an indication that this "alternative" is better.  That is government manipulation and force.

Quote:
And factoring in a false meme isn't very honest, is it?


I honestly don't know which meme you are talking about.

Quote:
And yes, I posted convincing evidence that the NHS system covers a similar demographic (white middle class) at 1/2 the cost and twice as good outcomes as the American system. Again, I'm not going to repost it. It is now commonplace knowledge.


So, again, you will not support your claim?  I see below you posted some vague numbers and rankings.  Not sure if a ranking = twice as good.  But perhaps you will get to that?

You, again, will also not provide any support for the idea that changing the funding mechanism to "Medicare for all", whatever that may be, will lead to the same cost savings, right?
  
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Ulysses
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #36 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 11:44pm
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OK, I'm done discussing matters with the obtuse.
  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
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Beryl
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #37 - Apr 14th, 2019 at 11:51pm
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How long before Useless starts another thread based on someone else's opinion?

There has to be a Vox  piece on the horizon.
  

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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #38 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 1:32am
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Beryl wrote on Apr 14th, 2019 at 11:51pm:
How long before Useless starts another thread based on someone else's opinion?

There has to be a Vox  piece on the horizon.


If you don't like my threads, don't read them.

Snowflake.

  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
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Beryl
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Re: Trump Oblivious To How Unpopular He Is
Reply #39 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 1:36am
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Ulysses wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 1:32am:
If you don't like my threads, don't read them.

Snowflake.



I don't. I mock your inability to conceive your own opinion. Smiley
  

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