Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Rasmussen Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity (Read 182 times)
Frank1
LNF House Leader
****
Online


Posts: 7,822
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Apr 14th, 2019 at 8:32pm
Print Post  
I wonder if someone has written a book specifically on the 17th Century as the halfway point between our own time and the High Middle Ages.

I think the 17th century is the halfway point, not just chronologically but culturally, politically, spiritually and intellectually between the Middle Ages and our own time.

The 17th century continued so many trends pointing to modernity and yet right alongside these trends had others still carrying over from the "Age of Faith" (the Middle Ages).

On the one hand you had a Descartes, towering rationalist philosopher and basically a Deist, while on the other hand you had the Wars of Religion ripping apart the continent for the first half of the century.

You had the aristocracy already taking on elements of the degeneracy that would lead it to be overthrown during the next two centuries, but at the same time (and one can see this even just by the dress and deportment of figures in 17th century paintings) the aristocracy still carried some of the truly noble values of their medieval predecessor's including a "death before dishonor" ethic and an intense sense of chivalry.

You had Saints like the Catholic, Francis de Sales and mystics like the Lutheran, Jacob Boehme.  You also had rationalists like Hobbes and Locke.

Even in warfare, hand to hand weapons like pikes and swords were used alongside muskets and cannon for much of the century on about an equal footing.

One could give many more examples of the contradictory happenings of that time, with one foot in the Age of Faith and one foot ready to step into the modern world of rationality and materialism.

Ladies and Gentleman of LNF, I give you: The 17th Century!  Grin

« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2019 at 9:09pm by Frank1 »  


The 17th Century ~ The halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 20,494
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #1 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 2:54am
Print Post  
Genuinely interesting idea.

I like to imagine timelines like that, on a shorter scale. To my young children, I am the age that WW1 veterans were, more or less, when I was a kid.

We stood in front of the Vimy Bomber that flew the Atlantice 100 years ago, last weekend, and were thinking about what the contemporaries of that would have put in  a museum as an amazing feat from 1819; what are we doing now, in engineering and exploration, that will be celebrated in 2119?



On your point about 'nobility' - Hah! I give you King John, who is only remembered as a bastard because he was slightly more of a bastard than his contemporaries, who were evil thieving bastards.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ulysses
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

What's the frequency,
Kenneth?

Posts: 14,153
Location: Redacted
Joined: Feb 19th, 2018
Gender: Male
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #2 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 9:21am
Print Post  
The problem with the 17th century is that nothing really worked.

It was all baroque.
  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Demos
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
*****
Online

Hook 'Em

Posts: 21,600
Location: Austin, TX
Joined: Jul 13th, 2003
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #3 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 11:34am
Print Post  

Agree with your broader point.

Like Limey have to quibble with this..

Frank1 wrote on Apr 14th, 2019 at 8:32pm:
...the aristocracy still carried some of the truly noble values of their medieval predecessor's including a "death before dishonor" ethic and an intense sense of chivalry.

Which just seems like romanticization of the Medieval aristocracy.

Have you ever read Harold Grimm's The Reformation Era? It covers a lot of things you raise in your OP; pretty good book imo.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 20,494
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #4 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 1:28pm
Print Post  
Ulysses wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 9:21am:
The problem with the 17th century is that nothing really worked.

It was all baroque.



OK, for that one we are sending a specialist team round to deal with you.


It won't be pretty, but it's for the greater good.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wally Wants A Wall
Hardhat
Conservative Caucus
*****
Offline

Cunning... is but the
low mimic of wisdom ~Plato

Posts: 26,508
Location: Upstate New York
Joined: Feb 24th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #5 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 1:33pm
Print Post  
Ulysses wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 9:21am:
The problem with the 17th century is that nothing really worked.

It was all baroque.

The 17th Century was smack dab in the middle of the colonial period and slave trade.  Slaves worked!

(snip)  "The British began to establish overseas colonies in the 16th century. By 1783, Britain had a large empire with colonies in America and the West Indies. This 'first British Empire' came to an end after the American Revolution."
  

" The few will always act like the few.�

�Machiavelli

Back to top
WWWAIM  
IP Logged
 
Ulysses
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

What's the frequency,
Kenneth?

Posts: 14,153
Location: Redacted
Joined: Feb 19th, 2018
Gender: Male
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #6 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 1:49pm
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 1:28pm:
OK, for that one we are sending a specialist team round to deal with you.


It won't be pretty, but it's for the greater good.


On that note, I look forward to settling our score. I won't rest until you quaver before my measures. The key is to stay sharp.

  

"Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia" - Eric Trump, 2014
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Frank1
LNF House Leader
****
Online


Posts: 7,822
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #7 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 2:32pm
Print Post  
Demos wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 11:34am:
Which just seems like romanticization of the Medieval aristocracy.


Well, the winners write history...and the aristocracy lost.

One might note, however, that during the French Revolution in some rural areas of France, like the Vendee in particular, the peasants fought for the aristocracy against the revolution, of their own free will. 

Like I said, the winners write history and the aristocracy lost.
  


The 17th Century ~ The halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
forgotten centrist
LNF Speaker
*****
Online

bring back the middle
class!

Posts: 13,839
Joined: Sep 29th, 2004
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #8 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 2:42pm
Print Post  
I'm not sure that period counts as the "late middle ages".  More like end of the renaissance.  Maybe I'm wrong.

For some time I've been wanting to read Barbara Tuchman's book "A Distant Mirror", which talks about the late middle ages -- more around the 14th century.  She draws parallels between that time and the 20th.  The book had its detractors, but I read another of hers (The Guns of August, about WWI) that was captivating.

If anyone else here is interested, we could start a "book of the month club" here.  Dedicated thread, stimulating conversation, history and literature, blah blah blah.  I'd nominate A Distant Mirror, but would happily read anything else people throw on the table.

/thread-hijack
  

2017 dream team (junior member)
and now as friendly as Jasmine!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Demos
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
*****
Online

Hook 'Em

Posts: 21,600
Location: Austin, TX
Joined: Jul 13th, 2003
Re: The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Reply #9 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 2:45pm
Print Post  

Frank1 wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 2:32pm:
Well, the winners write history...and the aristocracy lost.

You don't have to read history; contemporary sources confirm the Medieval aristocracy wasn't that "noble" (and there's enough source documents beyond medieval romances and apocryphal histories).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › The 17th Century - Halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules