Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Rasmussen Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 17 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze... (Read 1,849 times)
Frank1
LNF House Leader
****
Online


Posts: 8,073
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #30 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:26pm
Print Post  
Demos wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:17pm:
However, if you're following the reports, this is looking like an accidental fire.


Right, a rationalist will stop at whatever the outward material cause is.
  


The 17th Century ~ The halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 21,071
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #31 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:32pm
Print Post  
Frank1 wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Ummm...yes.  Of course a rationalist will not understand.  To think this is not a symbol of a spiritual disease is simply blindness.


Religious buildings burn down from time to time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-28112373


It happens; old timbers, different approaches to building in fire resistance,  400 years ago.


Tragic indeed.


Nobody injured,  that's good news.
  

I have a new t shirt.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Frank1
LNF House Leader
****
Online


Posts: 8,073
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #32 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:34pm
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:32pm:
Religious buildings burn down from time to time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-28112373


It happens; old timbers, different approaches to building in fire resistance,  400 years ago.


Tragic indeed.


Nobody injured,  that's good news.


Sorry, this is not just "some church" we are talking about here.

But if it comforts you to see only the outside of things, ok.
  


The 17th Century ~ The halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 21,071
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #33 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:34pm
Print Post  
Take a look at the churches and cathedrals destroyed in WW2, and indeed WW1, by bombs and artillery.

I stood next to St. Clement's Danes again yesterday... built pre-Norman Conquest.  Burned out 1666. Bears the scars of 1943.
  

I have a new t shirt.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Demos
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
*****
Offline

Hook 'Em

Posts: 22,095
Location: Austin, TX
Joined: Jul 13th, 2003
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #34 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:35pm
Print Post  

Frank1 wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:26pm:
Right, a rationalist will stop at whatever the outward material cause is. 

Again, you're just brushing off the question rather than explaining how secularism is the root cause of an accidental fire - if that's your position.  And your first post doesn't address that either, since it deals with intent (i.e, attacks on churches).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 21,071
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #35 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:36pm
Print Post  
Frank1 wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:34pm:
Sorry, this is not just "some church" we are talking about here.

But if it comforts you to see only the outside of things, ok. 



I'm well aware that it isn't just "some church ", Frank, don't put words in my mouth.


I know that you are clued up on history,  you are not the only one.

I gave York Minster as an example because it's a church of comparable history and of great beauty.
  

I have a new t shirt.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Frank1
LNF House Leader
****
Online


Posts: 8,073
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #36 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:41pm
Print Post  
Demos wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:35pm:
Again, you're just brushing off the question rather than explaining how secularism is the root cause of an accidental fire - if that's your position.  And your first post doesn't address that either, since it deals with intent (i.e, attacks on churches).


I said the church is an outward manifestation of religion, which at its root is non-material, spiritual, inward.

The inward religion of the former Christian countries has mostly dried up at this point.  Thus the outward manifestations of the religion serve little purpose, they are like dried husks, or the shell of a dead insect.
Therefore it is not surprising that this Cathedral, which has mostly lost its reason for existing, burned to the ground.

It was named after Our Lady, and she watched over it for centuries, keeping it safe through the French Revolution even.  But when the people have abandoned the inward spirituality of which this Cathedral was an outward manifestation, when they have reduced it to simply a "cultural treasure" (whatever that even is...I mean talk about stupid), Our Lady has withdrawn her protection.

It is surely no coincidence that this is happening as we approach Easter.  For those with "eyes to see" the meaning here is clear. 

For the spiritually blind, of course, this is just a "sad accident" in which a "cultural treasure" has burned to the ground.

  


The 17th Century ~ The halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Frank1
LNF House Leader
****
Online


Posts: 8,073
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #37 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:43pm
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:36pm:
I'm well aware that it isn't just "some church ", Frank, don't put words in my mouth.


I know that you are clued up on history,  you are not the only one.

I gave York Minster as an example because it's a church of comparable history and of great beauty.


Sorry if I offended you.  I would say the fire at York Minster is a smaller sign of the same disease.  England is little healthier than France in this case.
  


The 17th Century ~ The halfway point between the Middle Ages and Modernity
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Demos
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
*****
Offline

Hook 'Em

Posts: 22,095
Location: Austin, TX
Joined: Jul 13th, 2003
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #38 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:43pm
Print Post  

Frank1 wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:41pm:
I said the church is an outward manifestation of religion, which at its root is non-material, spiritual, inward.

The inward religion of the former Christian countries has mostly dried up at this point.  Thus the outward manifestations of the religion serve little purpose, they are like dried husks, or the shell of a dead insect.
Therefore it is not surprise to this Cathedral, which has mostly lost its reason for existing, burn to the ground.

It was named after Our Lady, and she watched over it for centuries, keeping it safe through the French Revolution even.  But when the people have abandoned the inward spirituality of which this Cathedral was an outward manifestation, when they have reduced to simply "cultural treasure" (whatever that even is...I mean talk about stupid), Our Lady has withdrawn her protection.

It is surely no coincidence that this is happening as we approach Easter.  For those with "eyes to see" the meaning here is clear. 

For the spiritually blind, of course, this is just a "sad accident" in which a "cultural treasure" has burned to the ground.

In other words, it's not an accident. If France wasn't a secular nation, the cathedral wouldn't have burned to the ground. That about sum it up?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 21,071
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...
Reply #39 - Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:43pm
Print Post  
Demos wrote on Apr 15th, 2019 at 3:35pm:
Again, you're just brushing off the question rather than explaining how secularism is the root cause of an accidental fire - if that's your position.  And your first post doesn't address that either, since it deals with intent (i.e, attacks on churches).



I'll advance a tentative theory.

It would certainly be possible to gather evidence,  if one were so minded, to test it.

I suspect that there are fewer, and less devastating,  fires in Christian religious buildings (on a per building basis) now than, say, 500 years ago.

We have safer systems for heating and lighting,  better materials for structures and furnishings,  fire systems both passive and active, and responsive fire brigades.


By and large, different cliques of Christians aren't murdering each other, and we dont have the horrifying wars in Europe any more that were such a feature of the years up to 1945, especially pre-1815.


Anyone want to do the research?
  

I have a new t shirt.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 17
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Paris Notre Dame cathedral ablaze...

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules