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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft) (Read 2,289 times)
forgotten centrist
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FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:15am
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These are guidelines to help improve debate here on LNF.  Follow them, or at least nod in their direction, and you will be helping our forum, making new friends, and winning people over.

1. Don't spew personal insults.
- doesn't help your argument at all
- makes it clear you are out of ideas
- feeds trolls
- encourages equally meaningless retorts

2. Don't feed the trolls.
- ignore troll-like responses
- don't honor insults or ad-hom attacks with attention
- if necessary, deploy a consistent, funny response to drive it home

3. Cite your sources
- back up your arguments
- prepare to defend your source's validity
- read before you screed

4. Acknowledge when your opponent is right
- if they got you, admit it freely
- validating a stronger position only brings you honor
- "agree to disagree" is an option

5. Avoid theatrics
- big fonts, hilites, etc usually just diminish your post
- all-caps thread titles invite people to ignore you
- political slurs ("demonrats!"  "conservitards!") also make people scroll away

6. Quality counts
- each post is a chance to contribute
- try to make at least one high-quality post a day
- look past the poo-that-gets-flung and shine a light on underlying messages, themes, and currents

These are a DRAFT.  Please help me shape them into something better!  Feedback, please!
  

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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #1 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:19am
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Good luck, I have tried this and those who thrive on personal attacks, accusations without evidence, and hostile remarks want nothing to do with these sort of rules.  I try to abide by them and I usually ignore the trolls.
  

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #2 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:29am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:15am:
These are guidelines to help improve debate here on LNF.  Follow them, or at least nod in their direction, and you will be helping our forum, making new friends, and winning people over.

1. Don't spew personal insults.
- doesn't help your argument at all
- makes it clear you are out of ideas
- feeds trolls
- encourages equally meaningless retorts

2. Don't feed the trolls.
- ignore troll-like responses
- don't honor insults or ad-hom attacks with attention
- if necessary, deploy a consistent, funny response to drive it home

3. Cite your sources
- back up your arguments
- prepare to defend your source's validity
- read before you screed

4. Acknowledge when your opponent is right
- if they got you, admit it freely
- validating a stronger position only brings you honor
- "agree to disagree" is an option

5. Avoid theatrics
- big fonts, hilites, etc usually just diminish your post
- all-caps thread titles invite people to ignore you
- political slurs ("demonrats!"  "conservitards!") also make people scroll away

6. Quality counts
- each post is a chance to contribute
- try to make at least one high-quality post a day
- look past the poo-that-gets-flung and shine a light on underlying messages, themes, and currents

These are a DRAFT.  Please help me shape them into something better!  Feedback, please!



Pfft! I spent the better part of 2 years trying to get the admin to follow his own words and enforce the rules he claimed that he would multiple times.  Instead of him helping all I would get was don't reply to them. Meanwhile I could not post without one of the two and their multiple accounts trailing me around even when I tried to take admin's advice. So...don't reply to them. Or and it may not be the best solution .... when in Rome.... Apparently admin only cares about hits which = $$$$

Funny thing about that. I accept my role in it but I had to fight off two trolls on a daily basis and got no help from the admin or anyone even willing to step up and agree with me that admin wasn't doing anything. In fact it it a very interesting theory how the person I complained about to admin always seemed to know exactly what was said and often replied to things that he could never have known I said.

To the topic. Go for it. Good luck getting any help though from those in charge. 

I'll say what some said to me...LNF is not for wimps!!!! Cheesy Shocked



  

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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #3 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:52am
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Good thread FC..
I'm in!
  
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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #4 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:52am
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Abe wrote on Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:29am:
Pfft! I spent the better part of 2 years trying to get the admin to follow his own words and enforce the rules he claimed that he would multiple times.  Instead of him helping all I would get was don't reply to them. Meanwhile I could not post without one of the two and their multiple accounts trailing me around even when I tried to take admin's advice. So...don't reply to them. Or and it may not be the best solution .... when in Rome.... Apparently admin only cares about hits which = $$$$

Funny thing about that. I accept my role in it but I had to fight off two trolls on a daily basis and got no help from the admin or anyone even willing to step up and agree with me that admin wasn't doing anything. In fact it it a very interesting theory how the person I complained about to admin always seemed to know exactly what was said and often replied to things that he could never have known I said.

To the topic. Go for it. Good luck getting any help though from those in charge. 

I'll say what some said to me...LNF is not for wimps!!!! Cheesy Shocked





Abe, administrating a forum is a massively unpleasant and time-consuming job. I'm sure Admin already has a day job, so I do not begrudge his/her inability to regulate the forum.

I agree with FC that ultimately it is up to us, and in fact, I prefer it that way. I see this forum as a microcosm representation of the larger issues our country is going through. If we, in here, cannot communicate and share ideas, hear each other's opinions, maybe even change a few minds or at least learn something new, than how can we expect our leaders to. They are us. We are them.

I believe we are capable of being decent to each other, and I will try to adhere to FC's recommendations. This does not mean, however, that I will not challenge certain individuals to see beyond their existing perspectives.
  
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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #5 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:36pm
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While I'm one of the bigger offenders I also notice the Right seems to hold their fellow posters to higher standards than the left does with their own. Stu is always getting called out for posting too many Racial posts or for his use of highlighter. I was called out the other day by a couple of my conservative posters. Problem is there are posters on the left that do nothing but name call yet no one on the left says anything to them. Maybe it's time to start policing our own if you want to put a stop to it.
  

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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #6 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:48pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Apr 25th, 2019 at 11:52am:
Abe, administrating a forum is a massively unpleasant and time-consuming job. I'm sure Admin already has a day job, so I do not begrudge his/her inability to regulate the forum.

I agree with FC that ultimately it is up to us, and in fact, I prefer it that way. I see this forum as a microcosm representation of the larger issues our country is going through. If we, in here, cannot communicate and share ideas, hear each other's opinions, maybe even change a few minds or at least learn something new, than how can we expect our leaders to. They are us. We are them.

I believe we are capable of being decent to each other, and I will try to adhere to FC's recommendations. This does not mean, however, that I will not challenge certain individuals to see beyond their existing perspectives.



I am well aware of that. As to regulating a forum while working; if admin makes it clear that if and when he or she does does log on, the offending parties are warned, then after that the admin can do as he sees fit.

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with FC, In fact, it was more an unnamed indictment of the fact that now many seem to want the trolling to stop. Same people here as there was two years ago. Where were they then?

It's like everything else in life for some. If it doesn't affect them personally, then it doesn't matter. They remain silent. I also agree with you about being able to discuss issues. That was always my intent and I'm sure the intent of many. I've seen the ones who say ignore the trolls get suckered into the back and forth name calling, so I'm not referring to just me.

Challenging individuals is one thing, trolling quite another. Most try to do just that. Some fail, some succeed.

I hope admin as well as those posting here adopt FC's suggestions. Keep this in mind, You can adopt all the rules you like but without steady enforcement, it won't last. It's been tried here.

Like I said, go for it. I hope it works. Then maybe I can do more than just read and make the occasionally post without the cynicism.

I do have a question for you. How does admin control his other board so well if you feel he doesn't have time?

  

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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #7 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:56pm
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Abe wrote on Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:48pm:
I am well aware of that. As to regulating a forum while working; if admin makes it clear that if and when he or she does does log on, the offending parties are warned, then after that the admin can do as he sees fit.

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with FC, In fact, it was more an unnamed indictment of the fact that now many seem to want the trolling to stop. Same people here as there was two years ago. Where were they then?

It's like everything else in life for some. If it doesn't affect them personally, then it doesn't matter. They remain silent. I also agree with you about being able to discuss issues. That was always my intent and I'm sure the intent of many. I've seen the ones who say ignore the trolls get suckered into the back and forth name calling, so I'm not referring to just me.

Challenging individuals is one thing, trolling quite another. Most try to do just that. Some fail, some succeed.

I hope admin as well as those posting here adopt FC's suggestions. Keep this in mind, You can adopt all the rules you like but without steady enforcement, it won't last. It's been tried here.

Like I said, go for it. I hope it works. Then maybe I can do more than just read and make the occasionally post without the cynicism.

I do have a question for you. How does admin control his other board so well if you feel he doesn't have time?



The only board I go to here is this one, so I have no knowledge of his other board or how it is maintained. My comment was based on my own experiences being a forum admin, and how I longed to free myself from that duty.

And bring on the cynicism, I think it is a healthy realistic view based on wisdom.
  
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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #8 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:56pm
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RWB wrote on Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:36pm:
While I'm one of the bigger offenders I also notice the Right seems to hold their fellow posters to higher standards than the left does with their own. Stu is always getting called out for posting too many Racial posts or for his use of highlighter. I was called out the other day by a couple of my conservative posters. Problem is there are posters on the left that do nothing but name call yet no one on the left says anything to them. Maybe it's time to start policing our own if you want to put a stop to it.


We all are guilty one time or another but that's ^^^ the key. That is what I meant when I said that no one cared as long as it wasn't them. RWB and stu were the only ones that offered any empathy and I have no doubt let the admin know back then.

Also like I said when it Rome...I can't speak for stu or RWB but there comes a point where turning the other cheek doesn't work so you treat them as they treat you. Often tough to fend off three of them at once which is how they play the game.  So it's back to square one then. There's only one person who can fully stop it if it's that big of a problem.

Again as I said, I tried to reason, goad, encourage, beg the admin to do something and all to no avail. I take the blame for my actions and as I said recently, ruined any credibility which is why I realize that most of the time I get ignored. I reaped what I sowed.

So for me it's seeing the irony of those who stood by back then and did and said nothing, now wanting civility.

I wish you all the best with getting that here...and I mean that. Smiley And I don't want this thread to end up being about me so I shall not reply to it again.

  

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Re: FC's Rules of LNF Debate (draft)
Reply #9 - Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:58pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Apr 25th, 2019 at 12:56pm:
The only board I go to here is this one, so I have no knowledge of his other board or how it is maintained. My comment was based on my own experiences being a forum admin, and how I longed to free myself from that duty.

And bring on the cynicism, I think it is a healthy realistic view based on wisdom.


Then you know that it was a relevant question. If he can get someone to do it there, he can get someone to do it here in his absence. Sorry I broke my last comment rule but you had a good point worth addressing. Wink
  

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