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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela (Read 768 times)
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Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
May 3rd, 2019 at 8:39pm
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This article was on CNN's front page when I got home from work.  I chatted with a friend for a bit, thinking "Okay I'm going to share this here when we're done talking."

By the time we were done talking it was off CNN's front page. 

I'm sorry.  But that happens WAAAAY too crappity smacking often to be a coincidence.  Every time I see an article on CNN's front page that runs contrary to the standard leftist narrative ... it's gone.  Fast.  I don't even care if that makes me sound like a conspiracy theorist.  After three years of watching it happen repeatedly, this shit isn't a game anymore.  I had to hunt for this article in my history to find it.

Since I decided that yes, I am in fact an unwilling passenger on the Trump Train ... there is one area where I have seen nothing but consistency from Trump.  And that's on being a rock hampering the wheel wearing ruts in the road of the American Imperial War machine.  That's a little grandiose.  But I hope you guys understand what I mean.  I'm not anti necessary war.  I'm anti stupid war.  And I'm anti American interventionism for corporate rationalizations.  THAT ... is what I refer to as the Imperial War machine.  A kinder, gentler, more humane colonialism.

Or as the cool kids call it ... "the liberal world order."

And in my adult life, I have yet to see anybody take as many blows on this issue and continue to stand firm as Trump has.  A few snippets that simply confirm MY biases:

" After US expectations were dashed this week for a transition of power in Venezuela,  President Donald Trump is urging caution among senior advisers moving  forward and expressing frustration that some aides are more openly  teasing military intervention, according to officials familiar with the  matter. "

*******
"It amounted to, at times, a  picture of a President at odds with the officials who this week have  called vociferously for a change in power in Caracas and have  consistently declined to rule out a US military intervention."

*******
"Trump has become frustrated this week as  national security adviser John Bolton and others openly teased military  options and has told friends that if Bolton had his way he'd already be  at war in multiple places."

*******
"But Trump, who has until now given  Bolton wide leeway to manage the situation in Venezuela, appeared more  cautious this week, privately expressing concern over how solid Guaido's  plans are to take power and win support from Venezuela's military."

******
"The President's skepticism was sparked  after the military uprising that Guaido and some US officials were  counting on failed to gain steam — leading him to ask to questions about  the reliability of US intelligence that suggested senior members of  Maduro's inner circle were preparing to defect.

In  meetings throughout the week, Trump has pressed aides on how reliable  the information coming from Guaido and Venezuela was and whether it was  being interpreted properly, according to people familiar with the  conversations."
******

"Trump's hesitance to elaborate what his  military options are is in line with his long-held — though sometimes  not adhered to — view that presidents should not telegraph their  military intentions ahead of time. And his reluctance to wade into  another foreign conflict matches an anti-interventionist stance that  he's adopted in Syria and Afghanistan.

But  it puts him somewhat at odds with his allies, including Sen. Lindsey  Graham, who openly advocated a tougher military approach toward  Venezuela on Friday."
******

"Trump is eager to see Maduro leave power  but has made clear to advisers that he does not want to order a mission  that would turn into an extended engagement with unforeseen  consequences, people familiar with the matter said."


Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela - CNN - 5/3/19

So long as Trump remains consistent on this one issue ... only giving ground when it's apparent he has to ...he's my guy.  And I give zero f*cks about the histrionic meltdowns on the other side of the aisle.

Would Obama stand his ground?  Been there done that.  The answer is no. 

Would Hillary?

Would Biden?

Would any of the other inexperienced "Please love me!" candidates in the Democratic race?

Not bloody likely.  Tulsi's treatment is a damn good indicator.  There's votes to be mined from Republican neo cons. 

Sometimes it takes an asshole to get the job done.  That's just how the world works.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #1 - May 3rd, 2019 at 9:00pm
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If Trump wants us to stay out of Valenzuela, then I am in full agreement with him.

I don't see any logical reason to get involved. We shouldn't be doing anything. No military, no arms, no humanitarian aid, no money...*NOTHING*

Let the situation play out on its own.
  


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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #2 - May 3rd, 2019 at 9:14pm
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Trump should have never brought Bolton into his cabinet.

These neocons need to disappear.
  


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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #3 - May 3rd, 2019 at 9:43pm
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Trump has been anything but consistent or standing firm against using American power.

Bombed Assad twice. Troops still in Syria (to confront Iran). Supported overthrowing Gaddafi in 2011. Trying to affect regime change in Venezuela. Continuing military operations around the world. Vetoed Congress’ restrictions on US military involvement in Yemen. Defends expanded executive war powers.

Despite his rhetoric, Trump’s actual policies haven’t been that substantively different from previous administrations, and one in particular, Bush 43.
« Last Edit: May 3rd, 2019 at 9:52pm by Demos »  
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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #4 - May 3rd, 2019 at 10:16pm
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Demos wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 9:43pm:
Trump has been anything but consistent or standing firm against using American power.

Bombed Assad twice. Troops still in Syria (to confront Iran). Supported overthrowing Gaddafi in 2011. Trying to affect regime change in Venezuela. Continuing military operations around the world. Vetoed Congress’ restrictions on US military involvement in Yemen. Defends expanded executive war powers.

Despite his rhetoric, Trump’s actual policies haven’t been that substantively different from previous administrations, and one in particular, Bush 43.


That's bullshit Demos.  And I think you know it.  Or if you don't ... your anti Trump bias is blinding you.

Troops still in Syria?  Seriously?  After how many public lumps Trump took from both sides of the aisle to get us to disengage as much as possible?

This entire article ... if you actually read it ... is Trump trying to slow the "regime change" calls in Venezuela by the aforementioned Imperial war machine.  And questioning and doubting the intelligence that has our Imperial war machine attempting to push for regime change.

I strongly encourage you to read some of the gossip books about the Trump administration.  Specifically "Fear."  As I said in another thread ... every single incident of Trump being called stupid or a "crappity smacking moron" or an idiot is related to his refusal to listen to advice like "Do you want to be responsible for the next 911 coming from Afghanistan if you make a peace agreement?"  Trump says "I don't care.'  Rex Tillerson says "He's a crappity smacking moron.  He won't listen to anybody."

Lybia?

“When you say supported it, I supported Libya?” Mr. Trump said.

“Yes, you supported the intervention in Libya,” Mr. Dickerson replied.

“I did? Where do you see that?” Mr. Trump asked.

Mr. Dickerson played a video clip from 2011 of Mr. Trump saying: “Now, we should go in. We should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically, stop him from doing it and save these lives.”

Mr. Trump insisted that the comments had not constituted support. “I was for doing something,” he said, “but I wasn’t for what you have right now.”"


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/07/us/politics/donald-trump-questioned-about-pre...

If Trump is splitting hairs on this, his critics are as well.  At best he's recommending assassinating Ghaddaffi.  And speaking of splitting hairs ... one of the most laughable attempts during the campaign was the ridiculous attempts to claim he wasn't against the Iraq war because he made a long drawn out "Eeeeeeeeehhhh... I guess so."  And the record is clear that almost immediately afterwards he expressed public opposition to Iraq.

I hate that he appointed Bolton too.  But as I argued with Lomelis some time ago ... who else is there?  Who that the Republican Party holdovers would have approved in the Senate?  That's part of the problem with the perpetual war machine.  The good old boys network we have in government that prevents anyone who doesn't go along with the "liberal world order" isn't getting anywhere in government.

Well, right now we have a president who disagrees with the good old boy's network.  And I challenge you to find someone comparable since Carter.

You're not naive enough to pretend the president is a magical beast who can snap his fingers and empty military bases around the world.  So I'm not even going to dignify the "continuing military operations around the world" charge.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #5 - May 3rd, 2019 at 10:18pm
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I'm a pragmatist.  And a realist.  I ain't no Bernie bro and I ain't no radical.

I'm not going to make the perfect the enemy of the good.  And Trump ain't perfect on military operations.  But he's damn good by comparison to the rest of the field.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #6 - May 3rd, 2019 at 10:31pm
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Well, Bolton is a lot like Graham and McCain, They never found a country they didn't want to bomb. Trump has showed tremendous restraint.
  

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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #7 - May 3rd, 2019 at 10:34pm
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Queshank wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 10:16pm:
That's bullshit Demos.

BS that he's not been consistent or "standing firm"? Just look at his record and statements over time. 

Quote:
Troops still in Syria?  Seriously?  After how many public lumps Trump took from both sides of the aisle to get us to disengage as much as possible?

Where's the consistency on Syria? Where's the standing firm? Bombing Assad twice? Defending that action by claiming it is covered by Article II powers? Okay he took some lumps for wanting to pull out troops; then backed down and left some there to confront Iran.

Quote:
This entire article ... if you actually read it ... is Trump trying to slow the "regime change" calls in Venezuela by the aforementioned Imperial war machine.

Yeah, now that our desired coup has failed. Prior to its failure, he's been pushing for regime chance in Venezuela and talking about "all options on the table." If he was consistent and standing firm, why were we attempting this in the first place?

Quote:
And questioning and doubting the intelligence that has our Imperial war machine attempting to push for regime change.

Again, after the coup attempt failed.

Quote:
At best he's recommending assassinating Ghaddaffi.  And speaking of splitting hairs...

Watch the video. He's arguing for using the military to overthrow and take out Gaddafi. Exactly what Obama did.

Oh and more on Libya. In that video, he talks about turning over the country to the protesters after overthrowing Gaddafi. Today, Trump is favoring supporting Hifter (not the protestors).

Quote:
...one of the most laughable attempts during the campaign was the ridiculous attempts to claim he wasn't against the Iraq war because he made a long drawn out "Eeeeeeeeehhhh... I guess so."  And the record is clear that almost immediately afterwards he expressed public opposition to Iraq.

Glad you brought this up, because it's another example where he's been inconsistent. If you have a consistent, strong philosophy on foreign relations, would his response have gone from 'Yeah I guess so' to opposition?

And what about Yemen? He vetoed a bill restricting our military involvement in that civil war on the Saudis behalf. Where's the consistency and standing firm? He didn't even have to sign it; he could've sat on it for 10 days and it would've become law.

I've argued for a while now - including in discussions with you - that Trump has no strong beliefs on foreign policy outside of trade issues, and his actions are evident of this. It's one of the reasons I have a problem with Pompeo and Bolton being in this administration.
« Last Edit: May 3rd, 2019 at 10:48pm by Demos »  
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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #8 - May 3rd, 2019 at 10:35pm
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Queshank wrote on May 3rd, 2019 at 8:39pm:
This article was on CNN's front page when I got home from work.  I chatted with a friend for a bit, thinking "Okay I'm going to share this here when we're done talking."

By the time we were done talking it was off CNN's front page. 

I'm sorry.  But that happens WAAAAY too crappity smacking often to be a coincidence.  Every time I see an article on CNN's front page that runs contrary to the standard leftist narrative ... it's gone.  Fast.  I don't even care if that makes me sound like a conspiracy theorist.  After three years of watching it happen repeatedly, this shit isn't a game anymore.  I had to hunt for this article in my history to find it.

Since I decided that yes, I am in fact an unwilling passenger on the Trump Train ... there is one area where I have seen nothing but consistency from Trump.  And that's on being a rock hampering the wheel wearing ruts in the road of the American Imperial War machine.  That's a little grandiose.  But I hope you guys understand what I mean.  I'm not anti necessary war.  I'm anti stupid war.  And I'm anti American interventionism for corporate rationalizations.  THAT ... is what I refer to as the Imperial War machine.  A kinder, gentler, more humane colonialism.

Or as the cool kids call it ... "the liberal world order."

And in my adult life, I have yet to see anybody take as many blows on this issue and continue to stand firm as Trump has.  A few snippets that simply confirm MY biases:

" After US expectations were dashed this week for a transition of power in Venezuela,  President Donald Trump is urging caution among senior advisers moving  forward and expressing frustration that some aides are more openly  teasing military intervention, according to officials familiar with the  matter. "

*******
"It amounted to, at times, a  picture of a President at odds with the officials who this week have  called vociferously for a change in power in Caracas and have  consistently declined to rule out a US military intervention."

*******
"Trump has become frustrated this week as  national security adviser John Bolton and others openly teased military  options and has told friends that if Bolton had his way he'd already be  at war in multiple places."

*******
"But Trump, who has until now given  Bolton wide leeway to manage the situation in Venezuela, appeared more  cautious this week, privately expressing concern over how solid Guaido's  plans are to take power and win support from Venezuela's military."

******
"The President's skepticism was sparked  after the military uprising that Guaido and some US officials were  counting on failed to gain steam — leading him to ask to questions about  the reliability of US intelligence that suggested senior members of  Maduro's inner circle were preparing to defect.

In  meetings throughout the week, Trump has pressed aides on how reliable  the information coming from Guaido and Venezuela was and whether it was  being interpreted properly, according to people familiar with the  conversations."
******

"Trump's hesitance to elaborate what his  military options are is in line with his long-held — though sometimes  not adhered to — view that presidents should not telegraph their  military intentions ahead of time. And his reluctance to wade into  another foreign conflict matches an anti-interventionist stance that  he's adopted in Syria and Afghanistan.

But  it puts him somewhat at odds with his allies, including Sen. Lindsey  Graham, who openly advocated a tougher military approach toward  Venezuela on Friday."
******

"Trump is eager to see Maduro leave power  but has made clear to advisers that he does not want to order a mission  that would turn into an extended engagement with unforeseen  consequences, people familiar with the matter said."


Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela - CNN - 5/3/19

So long as Trump remains consistent on this one issue ... only giving ground when it's apparent he has to ...he's my guy.  And I give zero f*cks about the histrionic meltdowns on the other side of the aisle.

Would Obama stand his ground?  Been there done that.  The answer is no. 

Would Hillary?

Would Biden?

Would any of the other inexperienced "Please love me!" candidates in the Democratic race?

Not bloody likely.  Tulsi's treatment is a damn good indicator.  There's votes to be mined from Republican neo cons. 

Sometimes it takes an asshole to get the job done.  That's just how the world works.

Queshank


Reigning in the war machine is the one issue that could get me to vote for him this time.

I'm not there yet though. For one thing, he's the one responsible for putting some of these guys in there to whom he is now urging caution.

  

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Re: Trump urges caution as Bolton and Pompeo tease a military intervention in Venezuela
Reply #9 - May 3rd, 2019 at 10:35pm
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