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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A new element in liberal neofascism (Read 1,676 times)
TowardLiberty
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #30 - May 15th, 2019 at 11:02am
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petep wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 9:41am:
I disagree - I think you are thinking of a 1940-1970 era conservative stereotype...starting with reagan limited gov't and socially liberal conservative mvt was born...

fast forward to tea party conservatives and you have people that support gay rights, pot, small gov't, less regulation...

I don't know any conservatives today that are not that way...


I don't know of any conservatives who support legalizing drugs or legalizing sex work. And when it comes to immigration and trade, they are all about policing who you can hire, rent to or exchange with.

Quote:
I know many on the left that are pro large gov't, more regulations, and can't wait to tell you how to act, behave, believe, eat etc.. etc...todays left are not the left from the 1960's..

when NYC's leaders were telling people what size soft drinks they could buy, it was conservatives who were upset with gov't overreach, and this move had great support from the left...as one simple example..

(and all this is not to say there are not some wild wacky evangelical conservatives today that don't fit the 50's mold...they are just leftover from the past...and few...

Conservatives are great when it comes to calling out the left on these issues.

But I don't think that in itself gives them a pass on their own need for control.
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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Queshank
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #31 - May 15th, 2019 at 2:48pm
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Well.

The left did start deciding they were the ones who get to define dog whistling.  Don't be surprised when your own definition starts to bite you in the ass.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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petep
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Re: A new element in liberal neofacsism
Reply #32 - May 15th, 2019 at 2:57pm
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Wally Wants A Wall wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 10:11am:
stop simply using Wikipedia for the self defined definition of the Wikipedia users.


try more...

" As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism. "

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions. "
https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

It is far too simplistic and wrong to put believe that Fascism represents a right wing or left wing philosophy. It's purely about Stateism and control of the masses by a central government.



this post should be a sticky. It's astounding how many do not understand how the german socialist workers party embraced facism...its because they are very close siblings...
  
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petep
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #33 - May 15th, 2019 at 3:00pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 11:02am:
I don't know of any conservatives who support legalizing drugs or legalizing sex work. And when it comes to immigration and trade, they are all about policing who you can hire, rent to or exchange with.

Conservatives are great when it comes to calling out the left on these issues.

But I don't think that in itself gives them a pass on their own need for control.



let me put it another way...I've never heard of a small decentralized gov't that preached self reliance abusing its people, or controlling them...

I can tell you of countless examples of large centralized gov'ts that abused their people...

If I was a politician truly running on a platform (and practicing) of small gov't, less gov't interference, more self reliance, would you peg me as a republican or a democrat...
  
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #34 - May 15th, 2019 at 3:03pm
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petep wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
If I was a politician truly running on a platform (and practicing) of small gov't, less gov't interference, more self reliance, would you peg me as a republican or a democrat...


In which time frame ?..
  

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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #35 - May 15th, 2019 at 3:11pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 10:59am:
With that said, even if they are valid, the Chinese are not legally required to follow US law.

So true.

For all the of the fearmongering on one-world government (justifiable in its own right at face value), conservative champions of Intellectual Property sure seem to wish for a global governing body enforcing property rights on ideas, 1s and 0s, and sounds.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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Limey.
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #36 - May 15th, 2019 at 4:11pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 3:11pm:
So true.

For all the of the fearmongering on one-world government (justifiable in its own right at face value), conservative champions of Intellectual Property sure seem to wish for a global governing body enforcing property rights on ideas, 1s and 0s, and sounds.


That's sort of a major plank in how businesses work though.
  

I have a new t shirt.
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #37 - May 15th, 2019 at 4:31pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 3:11pm:
conservative champions of Intellectual Property sure seem to wish for a global governing body enforcing property rights on ideas, 1s and 0s, and sounds.


Yes because the 1s and 0s that facilitated your typing of that spontaneously appeared out of thin air..



You are free to expend your labor building your own plow (a plow is an idea) but you are not free to steal the labor I put into building mine.

You are free to expend your labor coding your own spreadsheet (a spreadsheet is an idea) but you are not free to steal the labor I put into coding mine.

  

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petep
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #38 - May 15th, 2019 at 4:32pm
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Limey. wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 4:11pm:
That's sort of a major plank in how businesses work though.


I agree with limey here - you can't conflate being against a "one world gov't" with some agreed upon or negotiated "rules of business" that happen to cross borders...

if the free mkt thought and proved more money could be made by having no property rights then that's what would happen...

we have many open source platforms....just no one makes money with it...to speak of anyway...

I do have some ideas how open source and making money could work...but it would be a "fluid, constantly changing company" model, where individuals don't work for a company, they work on projects toward success and are rewarded that way, based on their contributions...with todays technology it'd be easy to deploy...pretty neat actually...a bit like some of the freelance marketing models for artwork/stock photography etc.
  
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TowardLiberty
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #39 - May 15th, 2019 at 5:21pm
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petep wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
let me put it another way...I've never heard of a small decentralized gov't that preached self reliance abusing its people, or controlling them...

I can tell you of countless examples of large centralized gov'ts that abused their people...

If I was a politician truly running on a platform (and practicing) of small gov't, less gov't interference, more self reliance, would you peg me as a republican or a democrat...


The language is foreign to democrats but I submit that neither party truly wants to rule in that vein.
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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