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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A new element in liberal neofascism (Read 1,558 times)
Fiddler
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #70 - May 16th, 2019 at 9:59am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 7:00am:
Are you saying that nobody except the original inventor of the plow should have ownership of the plow idea?

This seems to be an example that serves my purposes, rather than your own.



No.. The idea .. a plow or a spreadsheet or 'x' ..can be built by anyone with the skills. 

However you are not allowed to steal the labor I've put into arranging the 0s and 1s in the order required to produce a product ..  a spreadsheet. .. .
  

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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #71 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:06am
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 9:59am:
No.. The idea .. a plow or a spreadsheet or 'x' ..can be built by anyone with the skills. 


Why?

You didn't come up with the idea of a spreadsheet.

Somebody labored and innovated to develop the concept of it.

And yet here you are, "replicating" the idea and "remixing" it to serve your purposes. Thief.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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petep
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #72 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:07am
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 9:59am:
No.. The idea .. a plow or a spreadsheet or 'x' ..can be built by anyone with the skills. 

However you are not allowed to steal the labor I've put into arranging the 0s and 1s in the order required to produce a product ..  a spreadsheet. .. .



I'm with fiddler on this one...

In this country and most of the world - with all these so called patent laws and restrictions and evil companies seeking profit, we have so much choice for any given product...Pick any product category - cereal, to laptops, to cameras, to phones the list is endless and consumers have countless choices....

or just walk the aisles of a store...most all would say there is too much choice...

there are vast numbers of websites and forums to help consumers of almost any product sort and sift thru the vast array of choices...its staggering

and people have choice, because of the protections on investment and companies will invest to beat out each other because they know they are protected...

  
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Re: A new element in liberal neofacsism
Reply #73 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:09am
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patrick2 wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 6:43pm:
Lessee, do the US leftwing extremists

- Call for total government control of companies?  Check.

- Hate jews?  Check.

- Support a holocaust?  Check.

- Have uniformed thugs in the streets to shut down opposition?  Check.

What part don't you get Einstein?  Cheesy


Lessee, do the US right wing extremists

- Call for total government control of womens bodies?  Check.

- Hate brown people?  Check.

- Support killing all immigrants?  Check.

- Have uniformed thugs in the streets and in government to shut down opposition?  Check.

What part don't you get Einstein?  Cheesy

  

Wally Wants A Wall wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:36pm:
In 2020, when President Trump is reelected and we retake the House and gain a fillabuster proof majority in the Senate, then you can blame President Trump and the Republicans for this continuing mess in Washington.


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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #74 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:09am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:06am:
Why?

You didn't come up with the idea of a spreadsheet.

Somebody labored and innovated to develop the concept of it.

And yet here you are, "replicating" the idea and "remixing" it to serve your purposes. Thief.


I'm sure you remember lotus 123, and then excel, and now any number of competitor products, some free...each with similarities but varied features and benefits...and most charge you to use their developed spreadsheet...

go to home depot and you'll find more than one type of shovel...
  
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #75 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:23am
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petep wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:07am:
I'm with fiddler on this one...

In this country and most of the world - with all these so called patent laws and restrictions and evil companies seeking profit, we have so much choice for any given product...Pick any product category - cereal, to laptops, to cameras, to phones the list is endless and consumers have countless choices....

or just walk the aisles of a store...most all would say there is too much choice...

there are vast numbers of websites and forums to help consumers of almost any product sort and sift thru the vast array of choices...its staggering

and people have choice, because of the protections on investment and companies will invest to beat out each other because they know they are protected...


But this logic can be used to justify any government encroachment upon the free market, if aspects of the free market are allowed to exist.

Hate high taxes? But just look at the quantity of goods available!

Hate property taxes? Just look at the quantity of goods available!

Hate licensing requirements for doing hair or driving a taxi? But look at all of the goods and services available?

The trick is to establish a causal relationship between IP laws and the quantity of goods available, which I don't think you can do.

petep wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:07am:
and people have choice, because of the protections on investment and companies will invest to beat out each other because they know they are protected...

The trick would then be to continue innovating after your first-mover profits have eroded, instead of stagnating under government protection.

  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #76 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:24am
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TowardLiberty wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 9:26pm:
True but we get wealthy by those remixes. It's how we stack ideas on top of ideas- innovation on top of innovation..


Unquestionably innovation would suffer..

Bert is small producer of Assholes for Hobby Horses. As an Asshole savant, Bert comes up with cutting edge Hobby Horse Assholes. 

International conglomerate, TL-PEA, always clandestinely buys the latest model from Bert and with their deep pockets and global distribution reproduce Bert's design and floods the market with cheap Assholes.. 

Bert eats the R&D loss and starts designing the next only to see TL_PEA snap up another of Bert's Assholes and reproduce it.

Bert finally gets it that no matter how good his Assholes are, he simply can't continue to lose money on R&D and so Bert reluctantly retires and the Hobby Horse Asshole industry looses one of it's premier Asshole innovators..


Without allowing an Asshole innovator like Bert a period of time to recoup his R&D investment..innovation would indeed suffer. 

  

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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #77 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:27am
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:24am:
Unquestionably innovation would suffer..

Bert is small producer of Assholes for Hobby Horses. As an Asshole savant, Bert comes up with cutting edge Hobby Horse Assholes. 

International conglomerate, TL-PEA, always clandestinely buys the latest model from Bert and with their deep pockets and global distribution reproduce Bert's design and floods the market with cheap Assholes.. 

Bert eats the R&D loss and starts designing the next only to see TL_PEA snap up another of Bert's Assholes and reproduce it.

Bert finally gets it that no matter how good his Assholes are, he simply can't continue to lose money on R&D and so Bert reluctantly retires and the Hobby Horse Asshole industry looses one of it's premier Asshole innovators..


Without allowing an Asshole innovator like Bert a period of time to recoup his R&D investment..innovation would indeed suffer. 


After seeing multiple successes and reaping massive profits, TL_PEA, rather than simply forego future profits, makes an outlandishly high salary offer to Bert to come out of retirement and lead their innovation team.

They offer him 10% stake in the company, since the calculations show that he is worth far more than that. Bert retires 20 years later worth $113 million.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Sep 19th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
We are talking about this government, aren't we?  If we were any other kind of government like China or NK, we would not even be having this discussion because you would not even be allowed to own a gun. 


Vypr wrote on Oct 15th, 2019 at 8:25am:
By all accounts Syria was somewhat calm.
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #78 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:34am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:23am:
But this logic can be used to justify any government encroachment upon the free market, if aspects of the free market are allowed to exist.

Hate high taxes? But just look at the quantity of goods available!

Hate property taxes? Just look at the quantity of goods available!

Hate licensing requirements for doing hair or driving a taxi? But look at all of the goods and services available?

The trick is to establish a causal relationship between IP laws and the quantity of goods available, which I don't think you can do.

The trick would then be to continue innovating after your first-mover profits have eroded, instead of stagnating under government protection.



rabbit I'm as anti big regulation/anti big gov't as you can get - but within reason...

I think the FDA/EPA has failed miserably with monsanto and products like round up..these are deadly brutal products that have no place. Monsanto if left to their own devices would be spraying it everywhere...

but I also know that RISE - the chem industry lobbying group, is joined at the hip with gov't regulators and the EPA/FDA.

its not an all or nothing position...we need some protection to incent investment and risk...but it has limits, as all patents do...and we have monopoly laws, just in case too..

but you cannot deny the vast choice we all, under under these protection laws...

  
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #79 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:37am
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petep wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:07am:
I'm with fiddler on this one...

In this country and most of the world - with all these so called patent laws and restrictions and evil companies seeking profit, we have so much choice for any given product...Pick any product category - cereal, to laptops, to cameras, to phones the list is endless and consumers have countless choices....

or just walk the aisles of a store...most all would say there is too much choice...

there are vast numbers of websites and forums to help consumers of almost any product sort and sift thru the vast array of choices...its staggering

and people have choice, because of the protections on investment and companies will invest to beat out each other because they know they are protected...





Example from a century ago - the British firm Vickers paid the German firm Krupp a royalty on artillery shell fuses, or in your debased grunting language 'fuzes', because of a pre-war deal.

The German firm Krupp was in a cartel with numerous British, French and if I recall correctly, American steel producers and paid them royalties on steel plate of certain metallurgies where the patent was held by the Directors.

Contract is a contract; patent is a patent.
  

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