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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A new element in liberal neofascism (Read 1,629 times)
petep
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #80 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:43am
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Limey. wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:37am:
Example from a century ago - the British firm Vickers paid the German firm Krupp a royalty on artillery shell fuses, or in your debased grunting language 'fuzes', because of a pre-war deal.

The German firm Krupp was in a cartel with numerous British, French and if I recall correctly, American steel producers and paid them royalties on steel plate of certain metallurgies where the patent was held by the Directors.

Contract is a contract; patent is a patent.


exactly - and if someone were to say hey, I'm tired of this deal, I'll invest to develop a better product, they would...but often the deal is good, relative to the investment and/or switching cost....see the epipen example I posted earlier in this thread.
  
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Fiddler
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #81 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:46am
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petep wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:34am:
but you cannot deny the vast choice we all, under under these protection laws...




To be sure..  If I could just steal Beatles songs.. I wouldn't try to write(innovate) my own..

  

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petep
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #82 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:54am
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:46am:
To be sure..  If I could just steal Beatles songs.. I wouldn't try to write(innovate) my own..



ha ha - speaking of the beatles - have you heard of the movie yesterday soon to come out - same theme as you just wrote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY0GBmOxyYY

going to be hilarious....
  
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Fiddler
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #83 - May 16th, 2019 at 11:07am
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petep wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:54am:
ha ha - speaking of the beatles - have you heard of the movie yesterday soon to come out - same theme as you just wrote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY0GBmOxyYY

going to be hilarious....


Yea.. I saw the trailer.  Looks interesting.  Hope the resolve isn't too goofy..

  

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TowardLiberty
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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #84 - May 16th, 2019 at 11:42am
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petep wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 9:46am:
This is where we have a disconnect...

You seem to believe there is not an epipen alternative or competition because they have some sort of lock or patent on the drug...that's what many "believe" -


I said patents are the reason for the high prices and lack of alternatives but I never suggested the patent was on the drug itself.

Quote:
No, they have a patent on the design of their pen and delivery method..there are alternatives - the "credit card" like delivery method...its just not as accepted.


Yes, and that patent is what keep the competition from making a cheaper alternative.

Quote:
AND most important anyone is free to design a better mousetrap...read this article

https://www.statnews.com/2016/09/09/epipen-lack-of-innovation/

You can see clearly historically it has not been done - even their competitor acknowledge the original design works and its not easy to build a self injecting self delivery method...

BUT, you can see people are working to better the design...

So bettering the design has always been an option...its just that no one bothered...

ever have to buy a mousetrap? Would you argue they have a patent and no one is allowed to develop one...hmmm, an expresion comes to mind...

Yes, we're free to make a different sort of delivery system, but we're not free to use anything that infringes on Mylan's patent.

From your article...

Quote:
Allen’s work at Cambridge Consultants centers around designing other forms of auto-injectors. He said the Food and Drug Administration has rules to standardize the way these life-saving devices work. Those rules keep consumers safe. But they also make it difficult to come up with design that can meet the standards — without infringing on Mylan’s patent.

“It would not be very difficult to create an EpiPen product, in terms of engineering,” Allen said. “It’s not rocket science. It’s purely the patent that stops us.”


Bingo. You cannot deny the fact that patents prevent competition.
  

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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #85 - May 16th, 2019 at 11:58am
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 9:59am:
No.. The idea .. a plow or a spreadsheet or 'x' ..can be built by anyone with the skills. 

However you are not allowed to steal the labor I've put into arranging the 0s and 1s in the order required to produce a product ..  a spreadsheet. .. .

A plow, fire, or any tool at all is initially created by the labor of someone in arranging elements into a pattern in a novel way.

Using that idea is in no way is "theft" of that previous labor.

We stand on the shoulders of giants and the fruits of their labor become inputs for us as we add our own contribution. No one builds anything in a vacuum- every innovation is a product of previous innovations.
  

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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #86 - May 16th, 2019 at 12:03pm
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:46am:
To be sure..  If I could just steal Beatles songs.. I wouldn't try to write(innovate) my own..


So how do we explain classical music?

Composers ripped each other off left and right and gave the world some of the best music ever created. Should we have stopped that creativity to protect the IP of the first innovators?

What if those who first invented fire restricted their invention only to those who could afford to pay royalties?
  

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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #87 - May 16th, 2019 at 1:58pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 11:58am:
A plow, fire, or any tool at all is initially created by the labor of someone in arranging elements into a pattern in a novel way.

Using that idea is in no way is "theft" of that previous labor.


Perhaps they gave it away..  Roll Eyes

Then I haven't been arguing that the plow is just an improvement on the stick.  Both can accomplish the same thing.. one more effectively.  I've said that you are not entitled to the labor I've expended building mine.

Practically any schmoe could look at a simple plow and build their own.  You are free to use the idea to build your own.   

You can't claim that about an electronic spreadsheet .. 

Not sure how old you are but you were probably aware of spreadsheets used in accounting prior to VisiCalc.. arguably the first 'killer app' .  Practically any schmoe cannot reproduce that effort.  Few can put in the labor to learn coding and produce this product.

Why you buy Excel.. you're not buying the idea of a spreadsheet.. You're buying the labor required to arrange the 0s and 1s in a manner that produces a spreadsheet.

When you give a copy away you are an accomplice in the theft of labor.



And if you're going to being 'fire' into this then you may as well include air, water and sunlight. Any of which are ubiquitous..  As those, neither can you patent falling water, round trees, or the wind...all of which can be used by an innovator, using his labor, to accomplish a task.
   

  

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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #88 - May 16th, 2019 at 2:17pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:03pm:
So how do we explain classical music?

Composers ripped each other off left and right and gave the world some of the best music ever created. Should we have stopped that creativity to protect the IP of the first innovators?


Yea.. That's why we see so many manuscripts by Muffat, Graupner, and Adolf Scheibe that are Bach's Brandenburg Concerto note for note..

Inspiration is not bit by bit theft..

  

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Re: A new element in liberal neofascism
Reply #89 - May 16th, 2019 at 2:35pm
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it would seem a hallmark of modern, working, societies are private property rights...this notion that if I bought, invest in it, discovered it, I own it's mine and some gov't entity will enforce that right...my home, my land, my car, my camera - things I worked for that are mine...and I can appeal to the law to protect those who steal or take or encroach on my property.

It would seem logical that if I invest and produce a product that is unique, and there are legal hoops I must pass thru to demonstrate it is unique...then I should have some rights to protect my investment...

and we have laws that if abuse my invention in a monopolistic way, then I will be stopped...and over time, my "invention" protections will run out...

all in all it seems reasonable...

if there were more money to be made by not protecting investment & resulting inventions with rights, why would anyone ever invest...

the argument seems to be if you buy your home, and anyone can use it, they'd probably make additions to it, bring in add'l furniture etc and increase its value...but to who?
  
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