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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l (Read 948 times)
Abe
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Re: NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l
Reply #50 - May 20th, 2019 at 10:55am
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Freon_Bale wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 10:36am:
So your argument is that since America has lower suicide rates than Syria, guns aren't a problem.

That is the worst logic I have ever heard.


If a person commits suicide...who had the problem...the gun or the victim? BTW, who gets retested for DLs? I'm driving 50 years, never retested in the nanny state of NJ.
  

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Re: NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l
Reply #51 - May 20th, 2019 at 11:43am
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some facts and data for freon...


Japan's experience also indicates that gun control has almost no effect on a nation's suicide rate. While the Japanese gun suicide rate is one-fiftieth of America's, the overall
suicide rate is twice as high as America's.

American gun controllers argue that in America, more males die from suicide attempts because males are more likely to choose a gun as a suicide weapon. Yet in Japan, males are still twice
as likely to die in a suicide attempt as are females.

Japan suffers from many double or multiple suicides, called shinju. Suicidal parents often kill their children, at the rate of one per day, in oyako-shinju. In fact, 17% of all Japanese homicide victims are children murdered by suicidal parents. Thus, Japan's tight family structure, which keeps the crime rate low, is not an unalloyed blessing.

Even America's leading gun control scholar, Stanford's Franklin Zimring concedes: "Cultural factors appear to affect the suicide rates far more than the availability and use of firearms. Thus suicide rates would not seem to be readily affected by making firearms less available."

Zimring's observation fits with the evidence in America. All ethnic groups have equal access to firearms, but Jews are less likely to use guns as their suicide method, while Blacks and Southerners are more likely to use guns. Although American Blacks are more likely to use guns in suicide, the black suicide rate is below the American average.
  
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Re: NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l
Reply #52 - May 20th, 2019 at 11:45am
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Abe wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 10:55am:
If a person commits suicide...who had the problem...the gun or the victim? BTW, who gets retested for DLs? I'm driving 50 years, never retested in the nanny state of NJ.


There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of articles and studies that link the availability of guns (an 'easy' form of killing one's self) with suicide.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/supplementary/firearm-availabi...

You are just wrong if you think that guns are not a prime facilitator of suicide. If you HAD to kill yourself with say, a knife, less would do it. Not saying they wouldn't WANT to, just that they'd be too chicken at the more, 'messy', methods.
  
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Re: NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l
Reply #53 - May 20th, 2019 at 12:00pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 11:45am:
There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of articles and studies that link the availability of guns (an 'easy' form of killing one's self) with suicide.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/supplementary/firearm-availabi...

You are just wrong if you think that guns are not a prime facilitator of suicide. If you HAD to kill yourself with say, a knife, less would do it. Not saying they wouldn't WANT to, just that they'd be too chicken at the more, 'messy', methods.


freon freon freon  - this is not a study - it states openly its a case for linking the two from a theoretical and logical argument perspective...

you need to do cross study analysis, as my article about japan points out...

and using your logic - its obvious sleeping pills would be far less "violent" than shooting oneself..

the significantly higher suicide rates in other countries with virtually no gun ownership shows that suicide is a decision that comes first, then method comes second...the data is clear that in places with virtually no firearms, often the suicide rate is much much higher - japan as an example...
  
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Re: NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l
Reply #54 - May 20th, 2019 at 12:04pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 11:45am:
There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of articles and studies that link the availability of guns (an 'easy' form of killing one's self) with suicide.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/supplementary/firearm-availabi...

You are just wrong if you think that guns are not a prime facilitator of suicide. If you HAD to kill yourself with say, a knife, less would do it. Not saying they wouldn't WANT to, just that they'd be too chicken at the more, 'messy', methods.

maybe we ought to outlaw automobiles, since so many fatal 'accidents' involving one lone driver, although they may be classified as accidents, may actually be suicides. The classic example is someone gets shit faced drunk and runs into a tree!
  

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Re: NRA says it faces financial crisis, claims it might be 'unable to exist' in future: l
Reply #55 - May 20th, 2019 at 4:50pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on May 20th, 2019 at 11:45am:
There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of articles and studies that link the availability of guns (an 'easy' form of killing one's self) with suicide.


So? Just walk into traffic. Go grab a cop's gun. Jump off a bridge. If one is determined to kill oneself there are many more ways than a gun to do it.



Quote:
You are just wrong if you think that guns are not a prime facilitator of suicide. If you HAD to kill yourself with say, a knife, less would do it. Not saying they wouldn't WANT to, just that they'd be too chicken at the more, 'messy', methods.


Glad you brought it up about ways to do it. I'll offer you a fast, pain-free way to do it.

Run a hose from your car exhaust to your rear window. Close window. Start vehicle. Be sure garage door is closed.  Get liquored-up. You're done, post haste.

By the way did I say anything about prime facilitation?  I believe not.

Me, I would never use a gun. I'd be sure whatever I chose, the job gets done. No assurances with a gun.

« Last Edit: May 20th, 2019 at 5:12pm by Abe »  

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