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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism (Read 995 times)
petep
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #50 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:29am
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Frank1 wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 5:08am:
I think you really don't know what you are talking about.

There is the type of poverty that simply exists in not having a lot of things. Maybe just food and shelter in quantitative terms. But in qualitative terms these people might have communal, work and spiritual conditions that modern people can only envy. In the Philippines this would be the poverty of people living in Nipa huts by the river and living by fishing, hunting, gathering or planting rice 2 or 3 hours a day.

By contrast modernity has brought with it a truly ugly and grinding poverty that consists of working meaningless jobs with low pay to make foreign investors rich and living in extremely crowded and dirty and dangerous urban slums, all the while surrounded with images of wealth that one cannot reach and which produce despair in many of the poor.

This is the side of 'progress' that apparently many people would like to sweep under the rug with misleading statistics, talk of the 'oppressive past' or outright denial.


Then move to the country, do something that has meaning to you. There are millions of examples of people choosing a life they prefer over the situation they are in, whether thru their own life choices or circumstances they were born into.
  
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Vypr
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #51 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:34am
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:29am:
Then move to the country, do something that has meaning to you. There are millions of examples of people choosing a life they prefer over the situation they are in, whether thru their own life choices or circumstances they were born into.

Frank would need a time machine.
Frank1 wrote on Aug 27th, 2018 at 11:15am:
the Middle Ages were far better than modernity
  

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Frank1
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #52 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 11:43am
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:29am:
Then move to the country, do something that has meaning to you. There are millions of examples of people choosing a life they prefer over the situation they are in, whether thru their own life choices or circumstances they were born into.


You are completely failing to take into account systemic problems. You think the millions of people living in 3rd world slums are all just lazy?

But that is the typical way capitalists justify the failures in their system. Its not the system, it's the people, they say.

Isn't that just what communists do? Blame people for the failings of their ideology rather than recognizing the ideology itself is bad? Hmmm.....?
  


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Frank1
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #53 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 11:44am
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Vypr wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:34am:
Frank would need a time machine.


I thought leftists pretended to care about the poor...?
  


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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #54 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 12:12pm
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You realize how lazy the capitalists defense of their system is? Whenever troubles occur under any other type of system they blame the system, but when failings of the capitalist system are pointed out the response is always "Its the fault of lazy people!!!"

Who is actually being lazy? Certainly it is the capitalist who can't take the time to put together a decent argument.
  


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petep
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #55 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 1:07pm
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Frank1 wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 11:43am:
You are completely failing to take into account systemic problems. You think the millions of people living in 3rd world slums are all just lazy?

But that is the typical way capitalists justify the failures in their system. Its not the system, it's the people, they say.

Isn't that just what communists do? Blame people for the failings of their ideology rather than recognizing the ideology itself is bad? Hmmm.....?


who said any of that...some of you here always grab the extreme example and try to turn that into the norm, and set policy around the extreme...most all overweight people are that way because of their lifestyle...are there some with genetic disorders or some other condition where they are truly victims - yes, of course...

but don't latch onto the very end of the bell curve and try to set public policy around that situation...

The US does remarkable work in 3rd world countries....human help, money help, infrastructure help etc...Have you ever in your life volunteered at a disaster site in one of these areas...I have...If you had you'd understand and see just how much volunteer work and charity we do there...

as one person put it, you have to have to give...

In my experiences, the US is virtually alone in what it does around the globe...charity is almost a non existent concept elsewhere even in europe...turn on the TV here or drive down the street and you see scores of ads for charity or drives or walks etc...daily...you don't see that elsewhere...
  
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petep
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #56 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 1:10pm
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Frank1 wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 12:12pm:
You realize how lazy the capitalists defense of their system is? Whenever troubles occur under any other type of system they blame the system, but when failings of the capitalist system are pointed out the response is always "Its the fault of lazy people!!!"

Who is actually being lazy? Certainly it is the capitalist who can't take the time to put together a decent argument.


if there is a "flaw" in our system it's that it allows individual freedoms and liberties and choice and some subset of the population makes poor choices....some end up running 4 minute miles and some run 15 minute miles...I like that...I'd rather have that than everyone running a 10 minute mile and if you try to go faster someone adds weights to you..
  
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Frank1
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #57 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:37pm
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 1:10pm:
if there is a "flaw" in our system it's that it allows individual freedoms and liberties and choice and some subset of the population makes poor choices....some end up running 4 minute miles and some run 15 minute miles...I like that...I'd rather have that than everyone running a 10 minute mile and if you try to go faster someone adds weights to you..


The capitalist system has far more flaws than you are allowing for. First off it's based on usury, which for the first 1300 years of Christianity was considered a sin. It still is a sin, but have allowed greed to blind them to the fact.

But I notice you are right back to denying flaws in the system and blaming bad outcomes solely on poor individual choices.

When I passed a craftsman living in the slums here in the Philippines, who was making nice furniture, is it his fault that the system denies him a decent wage? According to the labor theory of value, which is a Christian theory, he should be paid well for his skill. But not according to the theories by which capitalism operates, which state that it is fine to pay little for something if it is available in large quantities.

You should read Wendell Berry, probably the greatest conservative writer alive today in the U.S. He has the love of freedom characteristic of the Scotch-Irish people of Appalachia. At the same time he does an excellent job of pointing out how capitalism often limits freedom. The common association of capitalism and freedom is seen to be false if looked at in detail.
« Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2019 at 9:43pm by Frank1 »  


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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #58 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 10:21pm
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Lets see...live in poverty in a slum with an iphone or toil from sun up till sunset while starving and diseased and if that doesn't kill you then maybe the beautiful war that the benevolent lords conscript you into will do the trick.

Seems like an easy choice.

Yes that's an exaggeration but what Frank is really asking for is a system where everyone could own enough property to work their own lands and produce things themselves.  It's utopian.

The opportunity is there for exactly that in our current system and the lives of the impoverished are greatly improving generation after generation.  It doesn't happen over night.
  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Feb 19th, 2019 at 9:18am:
Regulations are designed to protect the consumer and the worker.  If it doesn’t,it is not a regulation.



"Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.
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Re: Ponzi Scheme Libertarianism
Reply #59 - Jun 11th, 2019 at 10:39pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jun 8th, 2019 at 10:05am:
That huge cost is a myth.



It isn't a myth: https://www.oann.com/

The live video on the right side says we are over $121b for the year.
  

"Making a silent prayer for the innocent people gunned down in El Paso. As well as for all others, past, present, and future, who fall victim to the deranged rantings of Don the Con and our misbegotten gun epidemic. -Ulysses (most disgusting dirt bag on LNF)


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