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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Twins: science and magic (Read 476 times)
Freon_Bale
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #30 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 9:37am
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petep wrote on Jun 11th, 2019 at 4:27pm:
I never attributed anything I'm in awe of to religion...as you seem to be a self proclaimed scientist I'm surprised you jumped to a biased assumption...I simply said I stand in awe at the unexplainable...I'm sure the wright brothers may too if they saw a jet...doesn't have anything to do with God. Your unscientific bias is beaming thru...

and why someone with a scientific background would take what mortal men wrote decades later and translated many many times over centuries and centuries so literally is, well, very unscientific...

most religious people I have met are contexualists, understand the difference between literal interpretations and contexual interpretations...and are generally just focused on the "golden rule" - the soviets practiced state sponsored atheism...maybe stalin could have used some of the good aspects and teachings of religion... 


Then maybe I am mistaken regarding your response, as I thought you were one of the conservative literal Christians in here. Are you actually one of the vastly larger group of reasonable contextual Christians?

If yes, then I stand appropriately chastised and I rescind my retort.
  
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Limey.
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #31 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:20pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 9:37am:
Then maybe I am mistaken regarding your response, as I thought you were one of the conservative literal Christians in here. Are you actually one of the vastly larger group of reasonable contextual Christians?

If yes, then I stand appropriately chastised and I rescind my retort.


I've never really got the whole "contextual" thing.

It looks like discarding elements of the Word based upon one's own interpretation of the text.


If that's ok for, say, wearing mixed fibres or slaying the Male children of your defeated enemy, why'd it not be ok for murder?
  

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Freon_Bale
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #32 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:23pm
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Limey. wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:20pm:
I've never really got the whole "contextual" thing.

It looks like discarding elements of the Word based upon one's own interpretation of the text.


If that's ok for, say, wearing mixed fibres or slaying the Male children of your defeated enemy, why'd it not be ok for murder?


Being Jewish, I have no idea how to answer your question. We are contextual believers, and we encourage personal interpretation. I think a chunk of Christians are similar, at least in the contextual part. But there are some in here who think they are following the Word verbatim (yet they can't even read the Hebrew/Aramaic it was written in, so follow a translation anyway).
  
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Seawolf
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #33 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:39pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 9:37am:
Then maybe I am mistaken regarding your response, as I thought you were one of the conservative literal Christians in here. Are you actually one of the vastly larger group of reasonable contextual Christians?

If yes, then I stand appropriately chastised and I rescind my retort.

When you say reasonable, I have to ask, what is unreasonable?  Seems to me that you do not  believe that Jesus is the Messiah as foretold by the prophet Isaiah.  You do not believe in his resurrection, you do not believe in sin, heaven or hell.  That by being a good person you can get to heaven.  Are these the "unreasonable" views of Christians like myself?
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Freon_Bale
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #34 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:45pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:39pm:
When you say reasonable, I have to ask, what is unreasonable?  Seems to me that you do not  believe that Jesus is the Messiah as foretold by the prophet Isaiah.  You do not believe in his resurrection, you do not believe in sin, heaven or hell.  That by being a good person you can get to heaven.  Are these the "unreasonable" views of Christians like myself?


Oh Seawolf, must we go here again? And again? And,...sigh.

I don't care what you believe. It is irrelevant to this argument. The only thing that matters is that you believe something different than I do. And since neither of us is leaving, neither of us should completely get our way.

The ground is fertile for compromise.

So instead of trying to convert the world to your belief, which your puppet-masters will never do, let's try finding solutions that piss both us off equally.

Are you ready to be a partner? Or are you hell-bent on being a self-righteous obstacle.
  
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Seawolf
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #35 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:48pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
Oh Seawolf, must we go here again? And again? And,...sigh.

I don't care what you believe. It is irrelevant to this argument. The only thing that matters is that you believe something different than I do. And since neither of us is leaving, neither of us should completely get our way.

The ground is fertile for compromise.

So instead of trying to convert the world to your belief, which your puppet-masters will never do, let's try finding solutions that piss both us off equally.

Are you ready to be a partner? Or are you hell-bent on being a self-righteous obstacle.

Here we go again?  I asked you if this is what you consider as unreasonable for clarity, nothing more.  Stop being so sensitive and look at this as simply a question for my clarity to understand you.  It is nothing more.  At ease, as we say in the military.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Seawolf
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #36 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:54pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
Oh Seawolf, must we go here again? And again? And,...sigh.

I don't care what you believe. It is irrelevant to this argument. The only thing that matters is that you believe something different than I do. And since neither of us is leaving, neither of us should completely get our way.

The ground is fertile for compromise.

So instead of trying to convert the world to your belief, which your puppet-masters will never do, let's try finding solutions that piss both us off equally.

Are you ready to be a partner? Or are you hell-bent on being a self-righteous obstacle.

One more thing, and I have stated this to you on numerous occasions, I can not convert anyone.  That is between you and God, I can present the Gospel, it is for you to accept or reject and has nothing to do with me being "self-righteous"  You have never explained how I am being self-righteous in any of our discussions.  Clarity helps tremendously in written conversations.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Freon_Bale
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #37 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 3:04pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:48pm:
Here we go again?  I asked you if this is what you consider as unreasonable for clarity, nothing more.  Stop being so sensitive and look at this as simply a question for my clarity to understand you.  It is nothing more.  At ease, as we say in the military.


I think I just realized that you are actually serious. You really cannot hear anything in these comments beyond the words that are written. Which sounds sort of crazy, right?

And there is no way for me to make you aware of this without it seeming like I'm criticizing. I'm not. I'll bet you don't do sarcasm, either.

If you want to understand me, then you need to understand that I communicate using the full palette of the written medium. When you read what I write, I now realize you only hear the words themselves, and not the underlying messages, the insinuations which I almost always include. And I will bet this is true in your verbal communications as well.

You may not be aware of this, but you may have a mild form of Asperger's Syndrome. Many people do, including my brother-in-law, and I always have to remember to adjust my communication style around him. He's wicked smart, but he just can't hear the subtleties of communication. He's blind to them, and worse, considers them imprecise and 'bad' communication.

I will try to communicate with you in the future factoring this in, but it is extremely difficult to do so. You are asking me to throw my entire crayon box away, and only use primary colors.
  
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Seawolf
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #38 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 3:11pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 3:04pm:
I think I just realized that you are actually serious. You really cannot hear anything in these comments beyond the words that are written. Which sounds sort of crazy, right?

And there is no way for me to make you aware of this without it seeming like I'm criticizing. I'm not. I'll bet you don't do sarcasm, either.

If you want to understand me, then you need to understand that I communicate using the full palette of the written medium. When you read what I write, I now realize you only hear the words themselves, and not the underlying messages, the insinuations which I almost always include. And I will bet this is true in your verbal communications as well.

You may not be aware of this, but you may have a mild form of Asperger's Syndrome. Many people do, including my brother-in-law, and I always have to remember to adjust my communication style around him. He's wicked smart, but he just can't hear the subtleties of communication. He's blind to them, and worse, considers them imprecise and 'bad' communication.

I will try to communicate with you in the future factoring this in, but it is extremely difficult to do so. You are asking me to throw my entire crayon box away, and only use primary colors.

You are one helluva drama queen FB.  Is that question too difficult for you to answer?  You seem to have this knack of being overly dramatic rather then just simply answering the question.  I would expect a reasonable answer to go something like this.  No, I do not believe that Christ is the Messiah, I do not believe in the concept of evil and good, heaven or hell...  That is the sort of answer I was looking for.  I guess I am asking too much from you.  You seem to think every dialogue I am attempting to have with you is meant to insult you rather then seeking clarity.  You tend to read WAY too much into a simple question.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Twins: science and magic
Reply #39 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 9:15pm
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Imagine if we all focused on a few negative things in every person and trashed all of them because of it.

If you can’t see some positive messages in faith and religion without being able to discount some aspects then I feel sorry for you.

And likewise, if you are such a literalist that you feel you must believe every single thing written by men verbatim then I also feel sorry for you.

On the whole id say religion and faith has added more good than evil.
  
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