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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs? (Read 783 times)
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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #70 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 1:58pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 1:44pm:
Imagine opposing one of the chief causes of progress in the world. Innovation ceases the moment we stop ripping off good ideas.



Theft is the engine of progress?   Smiley

No, innovation stops when people see it's pointless to innovate because someone will steal your idea and get away with it.
  
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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #71 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:01pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 1:53pm:
You mean inflate. They reduce the value of their currency making their goods less expensive for us..

This actually subsidizes our living standards. And we do the same thing. So do most nations. We're all trying to have a relatively weaker currency to boost our exports.


The US government does not have jurisdiction over what Chinese firms do.

And you're talking to someone who does not believe IP is an unmitigated good. It shelters a lot of monopolistic profit and can limit innovation.

I'm familiar with these complaints but I've yet to see anything suggesting that trade with China is costing the US millions of dollars.

Have you tried looking?  Theft of technology is costly to our US manufactures, that is very obvious as the amount of time, resources and money that is put into a research for a new product.  Any way, here is a blog about their behavior.

https://www.cfr.org/blog/us-china-trade-war-how-we-got-here
  


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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #72 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:02pm
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patrick2 wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 1:58pm:
Theft is the engine of progress?   Smiley

No, innovation stops when people see it's pointless to innovate because someone will steal your idea and get away with it.

- and that's what China has been doing - ripping off US businesses - the loss to the US businesses means they dont have the money to further innovate and produce
  

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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #73 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:02pm
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patrick2 wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 1:58pm:
Theft is the engine of progress?   

No, innovation stops when people see it's pointless to innovate because someone will steal your idea and get away with it.

No, replication is an engine of progress.

IP limits the incentive to continue innovating the 2nd and 3rd generations of a product line. Why continue innovating when the government gives you an exclusive monopoly?

And it's not mere theory. Patent trolls buy up patents exclusively to litigate rather than for defensive reasons. That behavior ipso facto makes us poorer.
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner
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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #74 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:05pm
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TL innovation happens because we have property rights and patent rights. The entire game is based on I invest great time and money and I’m protected if I actually produce something that works. I have to sell as much as I can as fast as I can because there are a thousand other people who now are trying to beat me out with new innovative ideas they can own. And then someone else will leapfrog them.

That is the reality. We have patent rights and look at the pace of innovation.

Without rights there is a better argument to be made that it would stagnate innovation. I develop x and everyone steals it and we all just sit there in the same place because what incentive is there to come up with something better.
  
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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #75 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:06pm
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Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and Cybertheft. U.S.
firms cite the lack of effective protection of IPR as one of
the biggest impediments that they face in conducting
business in China. A May 2013 study by the Commission
on the Theft of American Intellectual Property estimated
that China accounted for up to 80% (or $240 billion) of U.S. annual economic losses from global IPR theft. The
U.S. Customs and Border Protection reported that China
and Hong Kong together accounted for 78% of counterfeit
goods it seized in FY2017.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10030.pdf
  


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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #76 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:08pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:02pm:
No, replication is an engine of progress.

IP limits the incentive to continue innovating the 2nd and 3rd generations of a product line. Why continue innovating when the government gives you an exclusive monopoly?

And it's not mere theory. Patent trolls buy up patents exclusively to litigate rather than for defensive reasons. That behavior ipso facto makes us poorer.

Stealing is NOT replicating.  It is pure theft and cost our economy.  Again, the amount of time, energy and resources to develop a new product is then stolen and all hopes of revenue are lost.  You seem to be arguing for the bad practices of China and against our attempt to reign in their abuses that cost us.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #77 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:09pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:02pm:
No, replication is an engine of progress.

IP limits the incentive to continue innovating the 2nd and 3rd generations of a product line. Why continue innovating when the government gives you an exclusive monopoly?

And it's not mere theory. Patent trolls buy up patents exclusively to litigate rather than for defensive reasons. That behavior ipso facto makes us poorer.


Your theory only works in the ussr or Cuba where there is one supplier.
  
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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #78 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:10pm
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The Trade Deficit. President Trump has complained about
the U.S. bilateral trade imbalances. The U.S. merchandise
trade deficit with China in 2018 was $419 billion (up from
$376 billion in 2017), and is by far the largest U.S. bilateral
trade imbalance.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: - now that tariffs are proving to work will Presidential candidates support tariffs?
Reply #79 - Jun 12th, 2019 at 2:12pm
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Tl you seem to be arguing that having a patent locks all progress down when in fact it does the opposite

If I run a world record mile, it goes in the record books as my record. But that doesn’t prevent anyone else from trying to beat me with a batter time.

And IF you happen to come up with something so good, that all the competition in the world can’t beat, you are still prohibited from behaving like a monopoly.
  
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