Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Rasmussen Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US (Read 607 times)
Buddy_Love
LNF Representative2
***
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 2,024
Joined: Jan 25th, 2019
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #30 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 4:41am
Print Post  
Ulysses wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 11:22pm:
The closest honest comparison would be for wait times for similar procedures in an American HMO system.

Example: I'm in an HMO. I broke my wrist in the middle of May. I had to wait for two weeks to get an appointment in Orthopedics. And even then, the most I could get was to see a PA (Physician's Assistant), not an actual Orthopedic surgeon. Meanwhile I was misdiagnosed in the Urgent Care department and put into a splint for two weeks. Once the PA did a physical exam, he prescribed a full cast for another month. Had I been seen in Orthopedics initially, chances are I would have been put into a full cast immediately and my recovery would have gone better.

This is the reality of managed health care (HMO) in America today. While I may grumble about it, it's certainly better than no health care at all, which in America is the alternative for many.

Now, the procedure mentioned in the OP is bleeding edge medicine: stem cell transplants to cure cancer. It's not surprising there would be a long wait for that in the Canadian universal health care system. But I'm sure the vast majority of health care outcomes in the Canadian system are positive and far better than the American system of "If you or your employer can pay for it, great. If not, too bad, so sad"...



I have a close Canadian friend that had his leg rolled up like a fruit roll up in a car accident about 12-13 years ago. Multiple breaks from his toes all the way up to and including his hip. He’s still going through an occasional surgery. The pain was so intense that he requested his leg be removed, to which they informed him that wouldn’t ensure the pain would cease. I talked to him many times when they pain was so unbearable for so many weeks and months on end, he was in tears and contemplating suicide.

They eventually “reset” his nerve in a new procedure using ketamine. He finally has started feeling better with exponentially less pain in just the last few years since the procedure.

But he’s 100% disabled. He’ll never be able to work again. I tag him in Facebook threads when ignorant Americans declare the Canadian healthcare system sucks. He always comes in and notes in the US the hundred or so procedures he has had to endure would’ve cost millions of dollars...that his lifetime cap would’ve run out several millions of dollars ago. In the US, this would’ve bankrupted him. He would’ve lost his house. He would be living on the streets.

In Canada, he still has a lovely home with his wife and he hasn’t had to pay any out of pocket.

THIS is how a country that cares about its citizens takes care of them.

He always states he wouldn’t give up his Canadian healthcare for the care we get even if someone stuck a gun to his head. To Canadians, our healthcare seems barbaric and unfathomable.
  

Wally Wants A Wall wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:36pm:
In 2020, when President Trump is reelected and we retake the House and gain a fillabuster proof majority in the Senate, then you can blame President Trump and the Republicans for this continuing mess in Washington.


Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
patrick2
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 19,640
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #31 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 5:01am
Print Post  
Buddy_Love wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 4:27am:
Was anybody needing emergency procedures for immediate life threatening situations placed on a wait list? I.e. heart attack, traumatic injury, etc.


Probably not emergencies, but check this out:

In a recent study, Nadeem Esmail, Taylor Jackson and I investigated whether the changes (mostly increases) in wait times between 1993 and 2009 had any impact on mortality rates. After controlling for relevant factors (physicians, health expenditures, age, Gross Domestic Product, inequality, and gender), we found that there was, indeed, a statistically significant relationship between wait times and the incidents of female deaths.

Specifically, after crunching the numbers we estimated between 25,456 and 63,090 Canadian women may have died as a result of increased wait times during this period. Large as this number is, it doesn’t even begin to quantify the possibility of increased disability and poorer quality of life as a result of protracted wait times.


https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/while-politicians-dither-patients-die
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Buddy_Love
LNF Representative2
***
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 2,024
Joined: Jan 25th, 2019
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #32 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:03am
Print Post  
patrick2 wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 5:01am:
Probably not emergencies, but check this out:

In a recent study, Nadeem Esmail, Taylor Jackson and I investigated whether the changes (mostly increases) in wait times between 1993 and 2009 had any impact on mortality rates. After controlling for relevant factors (physicians, health expenditures, age, Gross Domestic Product, inequality, and gender), we found that there was, indeed, a statistically significant relationship between wait times and the incidents of female deaths.

Specifically, after crunching the numbers we estimated between 25,456 and 63,090 Canadian women may have died as a result of increased wait times during this period. Large as this number is, it doesn’t even begin to quantify the possibility of increased disability and poorer quality of life as a result of protracted wait times.


https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/while-politicians-dither-patients-die


And yet we still rank lower than Canada in life expectancy.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.h...
  

Wally Wants A Wall wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:36pm:
In 2020, when President Trump is reelected and we retake the House and gain a fillabuster proof majority in the Senate, then you can blame President Trump and the Republicans for this continuing mess in Washington.


Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mojo-Jojo
LNF Representative3
***
Offline

The hobo fohmally known
as Jojo is no mo'.

Posts: 3,762
Location: Appalachia, USA
Joined: Jun 29th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #33 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:19am
Print Post  
Anecdotally, I lived in Canada for the first 23 years of my life. Years later, my parents both grew ill and died, in Canada. Both received excellent, timely treatment (chemo and radiation :/) for their cancer and in home hospice services at the end.

They both died.

No medical debt after all that treatment.

Their system may have issues, they all do, but it is cheaper,  more efficient and vastly more equitable.

There's no "perfect" health care system, as they all fall along a spectrum of outcomes. The US system is out near the fringes, IMO. A hybrid clustercrappity smack. The public cover the poor/old and the private sector covers the middle. Of course the private sector resists change.
  

If you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table, not a taller fence.

Oh noes! Virtue Signaling!!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
forgotten centrist
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

bring back the middle
class!

Posts: 14,837
Joined: Sep 29th, 2004
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #34 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:26am
Print Post  
Mojo-Jojo wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:19am:
No medical debt after all that treatment.


This has just yuge implications.  Medical bankruptcy increases were so fast they alone were enough to propel obamacare to passage.
  

2017 dream team (junior member)
and now as friendly as Jasmine!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
patrick2
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 19,640
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #35 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:52am
Print Post  
Buddy_Love wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:03am:
And yet we still rank lower than Canada in life expectancy.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.h...


Life expectancy is the result of a large number of factors, not just the health system.  E.g., the rate of suicide is going up in the US among white men.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Greg55_99
LNF Bunker
**
Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 38,376
Joined: Jun 9th, 2006
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #36 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:54am
Print Post  
patrick2 wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:52am:
Life expectancy is the result of a large number of factors, not just the health system.  E.g., the rate of suicide is going up in the US among white men.


But one of those factors is access to health care.  Seems the Canadians are doing alright in that category.

Greg
  

"You want the TRUTH? You can't handle THE TRUTH!!"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Buddy_Love
LNF Representative2
***
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 2,024
Joined: Jan 25th, 2019
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #37 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:57am
Print Post  
Mojo-Jojo wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 6:19am:
Anecdotally, I lived in Canada for the first 23 years of my life. Years later, my parents both grew ill and died, in Canada. Both received excellent, timely treatment (chemo and radiation :/) for their cancer and in home hospice services at the end.

They both died.

No medical debt after all that treatment.

Their system may have issues, they all do, but it is cheaper,  more efficient and vastly more equitable.

There's no "perfect" health care system, as they all fall along a spectrum of outcomes. The US system is out near the fringes, IMO. A hybrid clustercrappity smack. The public cover the poor/old and the private sector covers the middle. Of course the private sector resists change.


Honestly, it's opposed here by people that are terrified by change. That's it. They come up with the same paper thin excuses that can be shot down with quickness every time. And yet they ask the same dumb questions over and over...as if they can occupy us with the same retarded questions repeatedly, we'll grow tired and weary and give up.

1. "How are we going to pay for it" (super fúcking dumb question). We are. Instead of paying outrageous premiums to private insurance companies, we all pay into one big pool. And that big pool is the key to the savings. If there are more people paying into one pool, the cheaper the price. It works the same with private insurance. And people asking this question already know this. So stop asking this dumb fücking question. We already know that you know.

2. "But I want to pay outrageous amounts for private insurance". Great. Go ahead. There is still private insurance available in all these countries. The public option gives everyone a foundation of coverage. So that no one goes bankrupt if they get sick...or dies because they don't have coverage (and don't be a fücking retard...of course people will die under a public option because, surprise, people get sick and die under any type of coverage...it's healthcare...not God...it can't make people live forever). However, if they want more coverage, people in those countries are more than welcome to buy private insurance for additional coverage. So you still get your private insurance companies.
  

Wally Wants A Wall wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:36pm:
In 2020, when President Trump is reelected and we retake the House and gain a fillabuster proof majority in the Senate, then you can blame President Trump and the Republicans for this continuing mess in Washington.


Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
patrick2
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 19,640
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #38 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:58am
Print Post  
Greg55_99 wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:54am:
But one of those factors is access to health care.  Seems the Canadians are doing alright in that category.

Greg


No, they're not doing alright when tens of thousands are dropping dead waiting for treatment as I pointed out in post 31.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Buddy_Love
LNF Representative2
***
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 2,024
Joined: Jan 25th, 2019
Re: Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US
Reply #39 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 11:00am
Print Post  
patrick2 wrote on Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:58am:
No, they're not doing alright when tens of thousands are dropping dead waiting for treatment as I pointed out in post 31.


People die. It's healthcare...not God. Canadians by a massive massive majority have been very vocal: They wouldn't trade their system for our shitty system.
  

Wally Wants A Wall wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 5:36pm:
In 2020, when President Trump is reelected and we retake the House and gain a fillabuster proof majority in the Senate, then you can blame President Trump and the Republicans for this continuing mess in Washington.


Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Sick Canadians: Drop dead, or head to US

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules