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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Conservatives have an assimilation problem (Read 909 times)
KSU_Aviator
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #50 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 4:32pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jul 25th, 2019 at 10:55am:
https://theweek.com/articles/854416/conservatives-have-assimilation-problem?fbcl...


This demonstrates a profound failure to assimilate the essential values of the American system.


The very first sentence of this article quite effectively dismissed the arguments and conclusions of the remaining paragraphs. There is no predominant argument against legal immigration based on political leanings of their home country. That straw man does not hold water.

The changes sought by this administration seek to end the good ole boy style immigration and replace it with merit based criteria. The goal is to expedite those that are the most helpful to our economy while preventing people that will be a drain from entering.

I know some won't like that change in policy. It is not, however, an attack on a race or political affiliation. To say it is an attack is a straw man argument at best. More likely it is an intentionally misleading statement with the goal of inciting anger and stifiling debate.

The rest of the article is a great example.of group think. In her mind, those that don't agree with her awful people and it is likely that in her circle or area, her line of thinking is the predominant mindset. Therefore she sets out the goal of shaming those that don't agree with her. She is closed minded, ignoring the reality of opposing views and maligning those views to satisfy her own cognitive dissonance that comes from the existence of opposition. She further attempts to display her perceived moral superiority by using far too many uncommon words. It comes off as a high school student writing a paper and changing every word after reading through all the possibilities in the thesaurus.
  

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petep
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #51 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 4:36pm
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KSU_Aviator wrote on Jul 26th, 2019 at 4:32pm:
The very first sentence of this article quite effectively dismissed the arguments and conclusions of the remaining paragraphs. There is no predominant argument against legal immigration based on political leanings of their home country. That straw man does not hold water.

The changes sought by this administration seek to end the good ole boy style immigration and replace it with merit based criteria. The goal is to expedite those that are the most helpful to our economy while preventing people that will be a drain from entering.

I know some won't like that change in policy. It is not, however, an attack on a race or political affiliation. To say it is an attack is a straw man argument at best. More likely it is an intentionally misleading statement with the goal of inciting anger and stifiling debate.

The rest of the article is a great example.of group think. In her mind, those that don't agree with her awful people and it is likely that in her circle or area, her line of thinking is the predominant mindset. Therefore she sets out the goal of shaming those that don't agree with her. She is closed minded, ignoring the reality of opposing views and maligning those views to satisfy her own cognitive dissonance that comes from the existence of opposition. She further attempts to display her perceived moral superiority by using far too many uncommon words. It comes off as a high school student writing a paper and changing every word after reading through all the possibilities in the thesaurus.


exactly...
  
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #52 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 12:48pm
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KSU_Aviator wrote on Jul 26th, 2019 at 4:32pm:
The very first sentence of this article quite effectively dismissed the arguments and conclusions of the remaining paragraphs. There is no predominant argument against legal immigration based on political leanings of their home country. That straw man does not hold water.

The changes sought by this administration seek to end the good ole boy style immigration and replace it with merit based criteria. The goal is to expedite those that are the most helpful to our economy while preventing people that will be a drain from entering.

I know some won't like that change in policy. It is not, however, an attack on a race or political affiliation. To say it is an attack is a straw man argument at best. More likely it is an intentionally misleading statement with the goal of inciting anger and stifiling debate.

The rest of the article is a great example.of group think. In her mind, those that don't agree with her awful people and it is likely that in her circle or area, her line of thinking is the predominant mindset. Therefore she sets out the goal of shaming those that don't agree with her. She is closed minded, ignoring the reality of opposing views and maligning those views to satisfy her own cognitive dissonance that comes from the existence of opposition. She further attempts to display her perceived moral superiority by using far too many uncommon words. It comes off as a high school student writing a paper and changing every word after reading through all the possibilities in the thesaurus.

The article is full of quotes of prominent people on the right who are advocating various things which are completely out of bounds as it concerns American norms.

We see advocacy for industrial policy and greater government involvement in things like family leave, wage rates, etc. That's central planning.

We also see advocacy for government promotion of religion.

Go on down the list. There is quote after quote (facts) which document exactly how out of step with American culture this new strain of conservative is.

If you want to dispute this argument, the thing to do would be to take each point on, one at a time, and show how they are actually consistent with our culture and traditions. Or you could argue these are extreme views which are not typical of conservatives today.

Either way would work work but to simply dismiss the entire thing as a poorly written paper is not very convincing.
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2019 at 1:13pm by TowardLiberty »  

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TowardLiberty
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #53 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 12:53pm
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KSU_Aviator wrote on Jul 26th, 2019 at 4:32pm:
The very first sentence of this article quite effectively dismissed the arguments and conclusions of the remaining paragraphs. 

This is the first sentence:

Quote:
The restrictionist right's standing rap against non-Western immigrants is that they come from statist countries and lack the cultural DNA to assimilate into America's system of free enterprise, democracy, and individual liberty.


This is true.

That is the right's standing rap against non-Western immigrants.

The rest of the article goes to show how this complaint applies just as forcefully against our national (populist-Trump) conservatives. Many of their policy position are at odds with America's system of free enterprise, democracy, and individual liberty.

I'm not sure where you see the contradiction. I think the problem is we tend to be blind to the flaws in our own beliefs, where as the flaws in others are readily apparent to us.
  

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TowardLiberty
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #54 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 1:02pm
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petep wrote on Jul 26th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
I respect your thoughts and opinions but often you come across very theoretical, like my northeast college profs...a bit like the scene in back to school with the prof explaining to the students how business works, and dangerfield talking about business in the real world...you are not very specific...at all...


None of this should be read theoretically. I am speaking about real world causes and effects.

Quote:
yes, ahh...open borders, with some checking....honestly what does that mean...really..."some checking" - how does that work?


It would mean that anyone who is not a known violent criminal/ human trafficker would be allowed in. That's "open borders" with some checking.

Quote:
if I put you on the border and say your job is to keep americans safe and enforce our immigration laws...and I'm going to have drug traffickers, human traffickers, child traffickers, gang members, etc all in the mix...you job is to figure who is who...


Give me some databases and I'll do my best.

Quote:
have you ever spent time in mexico...have you ever seen how they rent and sell children to get across the border? There are many great, nice people...there are also a lot of really bad people..

oh, and by the way, to up the anti and make your job harder, a number a cities are offering sanctuary to anyone who can make it illegally...


I have spent time in Mexico but no I haven't seen people renting and selling kids. I am sure it happens but I haven't seen it.

It happens all over.

And that BTW does not fly. If you have open borders there is no such thing as illegal immigration, ergo no such thing as sanctuary cities.

Quote:
Trump is doing what he has to do....I've posted the raw data from the FBI and their assessment....


You don't need to do what Trump is doing to keep people safe from criminals. You could screen them the way I am proposing, a la Ellis Island 2.0.

We could repeal section 1325 and create a fast track for those here. Trump's not doing that.

Quote:
and as a side...I am a conservative...I have black members in my family - nephews, cousins, and hispanic members, neices, nephews...a black girl lives with my sister and takes care of my mom...she is from uganda...we love her like our own...what I'm sick of limosine liberals who sip expensive wine and have never been around the world and don't have racially mixed families telling me that conservatives don't know how to assimilate...its the most arrogant condescending judgmental pile of crap...

It's not about race. It's about culture.

And if you are an American who supports eroding free speech protections, planning the economy, and using the state to promote religion, culture, etc, then you have an assimilation problem.

It's not about race. It's about culture and ideas.
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #55 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 1:04pm
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Queshank wrote on Jul 26th, 2019 at 3:18pm:
A 'better deal' doesn't mean free trade.

Queshank

Ok, so what do you mean by it?

Lower barriers to trade but still some barriers?

It certainly can't mean more barriers and paying more for goods.
  

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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #56 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 1:07pm
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Queshank wrote on Jul 26th, 2019 at 3:20pm:
You have.  Several times.  And we always start over in each new thread.

It goes something like this:

Enriching oppressive nations that then use that wealth to further oppress their citizens is bad for not just the citizens of that country, but the world.


Ok but then we're not talking about getting a better deal. We're talking about keeping oppressive nations poor in hopes their poverty improves their ethics and political outcomes. Good luck with that! I'd make the opposite bet.

Quote:
If the citizens of a country want to buy our products, THEN we can have free trade.  If they can't afford it, we can't.

Queshank

I'm not sure I understand what point you are making. Chinese people want to buy our products now yet we don't have free trade.
  

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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #57 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 11:33pm
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Tl this is one of your worst threads.
  
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #58 - Aug 3rd, 2019 at 11:59pm
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petep wrote on Aug 3rd, 2019 at 11:33pm:
Tl this is one of your worst threads.

I think it's one of the best.

And I haven't seen you or anyone else say anything that has given me any doubts about the validity of the argument.

In fact, the hand-wringing goes a long way to confirm the point.
  

Open Trade, Open Borders, Taco Trucks on Every Corner

"It was the union of the anticapitalist forces of the Right and of the Left, the fusion of radical and conservative socialism, which drove out from Germany everything that was liberal.” F A Hayek
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Re: Conservatives have an assimilation problem
Reply #59 - Aug 4th, 2019 at 12:00am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jul 25th, 2019 at 11:15am:
I love how we can't discuss something without a fallacy (shoot the messenger) or whataboutery.


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So, what are you wearing?

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