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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Science vs Culture (Read 567 times)
Jasmine
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Science vs Culture
Aug 5th, 2019 at 3:51am
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By now, I’m sure most of you have heard or read about the protests being held on Maunakea volcano. Native Hawaiians and their supporters want to prevent a billion-dollar telescope from being built on the mountain. The telescope has cleared all legal and approval processes.

I figure a video would be more helpful than an article here.



This is a very interesting battle between science and culture. Take a look and tell me your take on the controversy.

Me? I don’t really care either way. I don’t care about science or any kind of ethnic culture, so I don’t have a dog in the fight. I just think it’s an interesting issue. People here on both sides are very passionate about this battle.
  


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RWB
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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #1 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 4:26am
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It's no  different than what our native Americans go through. The keystone pipeline through the Sioux nation is a good example. The Indians didn't want it running beneath a lake on sacred grounds mostly because if a pipe broke the lake would be contaminated I personally stand with the Indians it's their land if the big oil companies wanted the pipeline so bad they should of went around the lake. Now for your situation in Hawaii I understand that these telescopes have to be put at the highest point. I'm a firm believer in exterrestrial live on other planets and support trying to find other planets that have life on them BUT again I understand their fight it's their sacred land.
  

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The D-Man
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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #2 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 4:36am
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Not all science is equal. Some science has the potential to benefit humans' basic needs for food and health. In that case, we could balance the benefits of feeding and keeping well many humans against the culture and lifeways of the small number of people in Hawaii. In that case, I might say that the benefits of the science outweigh the value of the culture.

But this telescope seems to be a different kind of science, which will not benefit people in terms of their basic needs for food and health, but will only benefit them by satisfying their curiosity about trivial things like the beginning of the universe, and that only for the people who care about that, which is probably a smaller number of people than would benefit from having more food to eat or better, cheaper medicines for their health.

So in this case, we aren't pitting humans' life needs against the culture of a specific group of people, but we are really pitting one culture against another, the culture of the people in Hawaii, and the culture of the people who want to have their curiosity satisfied about things that don't really matter in any real way.
  

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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #3 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 4:43am
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Jasmine wrote on Aug 5th, 2019 at 3:51am:
By now, I’m sure most of you have heard or read about the protests being held on Maunakea volcano. Native Hawaiians and their supporters want to prevent a billion-dollar telescope from being built on the mountain. The telescope has cleared all legal and approval processes.

I figure a video would be more helpful than an article here.



This is a very interesting battle between science and culture. Take a look and tell me your take on the controversy.

Me? I don’t really care either way. I don’t care about science or any kind of ethnic culture, so I don’t have a dog in the fight. I just think it’s an interesting issue. People here on both sides are very passionate about this battle.


We said f*ck the native Americans and built stuff. Why not do the same to the Topical Asians

Build it, and they'll let it go after a few months.

You'd think they would worry more about global warming. That Island could disappear.
  

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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #4 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 6:46am
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The D-Man wrote on Aug 5th, 2019 at 4:36am:
Not all science is equal. Some science has the potential to benefit humans' basic needs for food and health. In that case, we could balance the benefits of feeding and keeping well many humans against the culture and lifeways of the small number of people in Hawaii. In that case, I might say that the benefits of the science outweigh the value of the culture.

But this telescope seems to be a different kind of science, which will not benefit people in terms of their basic needs for food and health, but will only benefit them by satisfying their curiosity about trivial things like the beginning of the universe, and that only for the people who care about that, which is probably a smaller number of people than would benefit from having more food to eat or better, cheaper medicines for their health.

So in this case, we aren't pitting humans' life needs against the culture of a specific group of people, but we are really pitting one culture against another, the culture of the people in Hawaii, and the culture of the people who want to have their curiosity satisfied about things that don't really matter in any real way.


Boy, do I hate pragmatism but when it's exposed in such a rudimentary way, I hate it even more.
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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Wally Wants A Wall
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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 7:21am
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Science & Culture:  If the Hawaiians sacrifice a few virgins by tossing them into the volcano, Pele may burp up enough CO2 to warm the planet enough that we all can be surfing at the North Pole and will eliminate winter!  There any virgins left in Hawaii?
  

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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 9:28am
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RWB wrote on Aug 5th, 2019 at 4:26am:
It's no  different than what our native Americans go through. The keystone pipeline through the Sioux nation is a good example. The Indians didn't want it running beneath a lake on sacred grounds mostly because if a pipe broke the lake would be contaminated I personally stand with the Indians it's their land if the big oil companies wanted the pipeline so bad they should of went around the lake. Now for your situation in Hawaii I understand that these telescopes have to be put at the highest point. I'm a firm believer in exterrestrial live on other planets and support trying to find other planets that have life on them BUT again I understand their fight it's their sacred land.


There is no point in trying to find extraterrestrial life.

It exists, but we will never contact it.

According to Hindu cosmology, which is by far the most direct and complete link with the primordial tradition of the current Maha Yuga (Great Cycle), every galaxy has an 'earth' that is its center, inhabited by an equivalent of humanity.

But we will never contact these 'extra-terrestrials.' Its not in the scheme of things.

So let the natives have their way.
  


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Freon_Bale
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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 11:02am
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The D-Man wrote on Aug 5th, 2019 at 4:36am:
Not all science is equal. Some science has the potential to benefit humans' basic needs for food and health. In that case, we could balance the benefits of feeding and keeping well many humans against the culture and lifeways of the small number of people in Hawaii. In that case, I might say that the benefits of the science outweigh the value of the culture.

But this telescope seems to be a different kind of science, which will not benefit people in terms of their basic needs for food and health, but will only benefit them by satisfying their curiosity about trivial things like the beginning of the universe, and that only for the people who care about that, which is probably a smaller number of people than would benefit from having more food to eat or better, cheaper medicines for their health.

So in this case, we aren't pitting humans' life needs against the culture of a specific group of people, but we are really pitting one culture against another, the culture of the people in Hawaii, and the culture of the people who want to have their curiosity satisfied about things that don't really matter in any real way.


I don't agree that this science is not directly beneficial to mankind. It will see 10x better than Hubble, so it can help detect objects headed for Earth, it can help find asteroids we can mine, it can help find planets that we can explore in the future, and the technology to build the unit itself has applications in vast areas of engineering that ultimately will filter down to our daily lives.

Oh, and it also can help us understand the universe.
  
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Maestro
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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 11:04am
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Frank1 wrote on Aug 5th, 2019 at 9:28am:
There is no point in trying to find extraterrestrial life.

It exists, but we will never contact it.

According to Hindu cosmology, which is by far the most direct and complete link with the primordial tradition of the current Maha Yuga (Great Cycle), every galaxy has an 'earth' that is its center, inhabited by an equivalent of humanity.

But we will never contact these 'extra-terrestrials.' Its not in the scheme of things.

So let the natives have their way.


The prospect of finding ET life is not the sole or even the primary purpose of this telescope.

You can find more information here: https://www.tmt.org/page/about#what-is-tmt

While the prospect of ET life is mentioned, it is pretty far down on the list.

  

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Ulysses
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Re: Science vs Culture
Reply #9 - Aug 5th, 2019 at 11:04am
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Typical Jasmine.

Too chicken to voice her own opinion on a controversy but wants to troll and rile people up about it.

  

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